The CIA. Other topics discussed.

[Velovelo]

Originally Posted by ichi the killer

You can't just turn the clock back 60 years.

So you have not been to North Korea?

All kidding aside, I agree that we cannot replicate WWII, that was simply an extension of the Great Depression.

We can, however, stop being the World Police and demand other nations provide or at least pay for their defense. Japan, Germany, and S. Korea come quickly to mind, but we are also providing military services to the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq. They should be paying in kind (oil) at a price we set for our service to keep the peace in the reigon.

We should ask the BRIC nations to contribute to the policing in their corners of the world too. Makes no sense for us to protect the Middle East so China and Russia can buy crude at peace time prices without a contribution to keep it that way.

[hornyag101]

Originally Posted by Velovelo

I agree with a lot of your opinions, they are well reasoned, and do refect the state of affairs with Isreal.

Thank you, I like your post as well.

The United States can stay on top. The reason is the same reason half the world wants to come here, and the other half hopes we don't come there. (As a military force.)

The reason is freedom of speech, religon, and to bear arms. The ability to assemble and speak your mind politically, religiously, or economically is denied most people on the planet.

The reason half the world wants to come here is for opportunity, the opportunity to live a good life in the middle class. That opportunity has been shrinking though and it is yet to be seen if it will shrink some more. A shrinking middle class will be what damages the US the most as it is what makes the US great. The American dream is not to be rich, it is to have the opportunity to work hard and provide a nice life for your family. This is why so many flocked to the US when in there country you were either rich or poor, very small middle class.

Your other points are valid as well but are useless if you can't find a job.

We have that freedom that is yearned for by so many, that the USA will lot fall in on itself like the great empires of Greece, Rome, England, Spain, France, Germany, China, Mongolia (yes they had a hell of a empire), India. and the Egyptians. They all fell because the people were not free.

We have already given up some of our freedoms in the guise of protecting ourselves from terrorists with the unfortunately named Patriot Act. We have allowed the government to spy on there own citizens to "keep up safe" Smart move on the governments to implement that when they did, we would have never allowed it at any other time but they got us at our most vulnerable. Freedom's are not taken away all at once, they are taken away just a little at a time so no one notices. We will still be a free country 100 years from now but freedom without a strong economic base just means your free to be poor, who is going to want to come here for that?

The tensions between the Middle East neighbors is mostly driven by tribes that want to kill and enslave their cousins in the other tribes. The single tribe (and cousins) that has freedom drives the others nuts, and the UK put the Jews as sole authority in Palestine just to tweak the noses of the Arabs around them.

What the President is trying to do through diplomacy (and a sharp stick re: Lybia, Iraq, and Afganistan) is create a union between Arab states (a dream of his father.) If you think they have trouble getting along now, wait until a central government is forced on the savages that live there. Look at our own history with Native Americans. It will not be pretty.

I wish for a President with the brains of Nixon (became friends with China after a long period of hate without firing a shot) and the ability to communicate like Reagan who dismantled comunism in Europe by simply talking about it (and threatening to build "Star Wars," a space based weapons system.) So the Republicans bring Romney? Given the choices, I will need to wear a clothes pin on my nose to vote. Not that it matters, Obama has taken the California fair and square. It is in some of the other states we need to carefully check the ballots.

I do have respect for any President or leader who can affect change with diplomacy over war. War is easy and an out for a coward, I can't remember who actually said it and I don't think I have the quote right but I agree "War is when old men argue and young men die"

What I really liked about Reagan was his effective aggression. When we were having problems with that nuts case from Libya he just went ahead and sent a rocket through his living room window. These cowards don't care how many young men they send out to die but if you make it clear that you will just come after them then they back down.
Reagan had a lot confidence and that is what's important in a leader, your not always going to be right but your always going to do what you "feel" is right at the time.

I wish Obama had the confidence of Reagan or JFK who I have read had the same confidence. I know Nixon did great with China but I don't know much after that, never really studied him so don't feel qualified to comment either way.

Were pretty good here, we should start our own Super PAC so we can get all the chicks

[hornyag101]

Originally Posted by Velovelo

So you have not been to North Korea?

All kidding aside, I agree that we cannot replicate WWII, that was simply an extension of the Great Depression.

We can, however, stop being the World Police and demand other nations provide or at least pay for their defense. Japan, Germany, and S. Korea come quickly to mind, but we are also providing military services to the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq. They should be paying in kind (oil) at a price we set for our service to keep the peace in the reigon.

We should ask the BRIC nations to contribute to the policing in their corners of the world too. Makes no sense for us to protect the Middle East so China and Russia can buy crude at peace time prices without a contribution to keep it that way.

Your right, we need to start making some $$$$ for being the World Police. That reminds me, I have to rent Team America: World Police again "America, FUCK YEAH"

[ichi the killer]

The reason we are "the world police" is not because of some grand sense of philanthropy. We "America" are over in the middle east to protect "our" self interests. "Our" self interests mostly have to do with Big Oil and other natural resorces.

With regard to Iran trying to get nukes. That is understandable. America does not fuck with countries that possess nukes. We only invade non-nuke countries like Iraq, Granada, Afganistan. If a snake has a rattle on its tail and venom in it's fangs people try not to step on in. "Don't tread on me."

[hornyag101]

Great post Ichi, your right.

[Velovelo]

Originally Posted by ichi the killer

The reason we are "the world police" is not because of some grand sense of philanthropy. We "America" are over in the middle east to protect "our" self interests. "Our" self interests mostly have to do with Big Oil and other natural resorces.

If I believe that position, why are we paying the price set by OPEC? If we were watching our oil interests, we would be drilling in America, and forcing prices down. We have plenty of oil, there is no shortage in reality.

If oil is the reason we want to police the Middle East, what about Germany and S. Korea?

I think the real truth about the Middle East is that we are protecting Israel, and oil is a red herring to draw attention away from the actual mission.

You make some interesting observations about stepping on nuclear toes and manhood. I don't agree. We have stood our ground with Russia and the missles in Cuba. We have told India "don't point that missle at Pakistan."

We have invaded Pakistan to kill Bin Laden, (Thank you, Mr. President) not thinking for a second they would do anymore than grumble.

I just cannot be tell what Iran is thinking. Suppose they do lob one into Tel Aviv? Before the debris comes back down from the air, Terhan will be a memory. I hope that never happens to anyone.

[ichi the killer]

I truly believe it is all a grand conspiracy ALA "New World Order" and we really don't know who is dealing the cards. We only have partial information. I think we are not so much a Democracy as we are an oligarchy where big corporations with big money are making the decisions.

The American people mostly are so dumbed down that all they care about is Snookies new baby and whether Kim Kardashian is fat or thin now. The Americans are very shallow and narcissistic. They mostly don't want to know anything except "America is Great!" Why are we so "great?" I don't know we just are. Because we are free. Right?

[MPkid]

Originally Posted by ichi the killer

I truly believe it is all a grand conspiracy ALA "New World Order" and we really don't know who is dealing the cards. We only have partial information. I think we are not so much a Democracy as we are an oligarchy where big corporations with big money are making the decisions.

The American people mostly are so dumbed down that all they care about is Snookies new baby and whether Kim Kardashian is fat or thin now. The Americans are very shallow and narcissistic. They mostly don't want to know anything except "America is Great!" Why are we so "great?" I don't know we just are. Because we are free. Right?

There is something to what you are saying. I don't think we've had a truly elected president since Kennedy and see where that got him. I hope it doesn't happen in our life time but I think the sheeple are being led to slaughter. After reading this book by Brice Taylor called "THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES" I'm not sure of anything anymore. I don't believe she could have made this stuff up. I attached a link to where you can download it....just read the table of contents. That should be enough to make you wonder.... http://wikispooks.com/wiki/File:Than...e_Memories.pdf

Also here is a video about a govt. cover up and the extremes they will go to so their dirty secrets never get told. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvl6kO1Vo8 It was made for Discovery Channel but at the last minute they decided not to air it. It has never been aired.

[hornyag101]

Originally Posted by ichi the killer

I truly believe it is all a grand conspiracy ALA "New World Order" and we really don't know who is dealing the cards. We only have partial information. I think we are not so much a Democracy as we are an oligarchy where big corporations with big money are making the decisions.

The American people mostly are so dumbed down that all they care about is Snookies new baby and whether Kim Kardashian is fat or thin now. The Americans are very shallow and narcissistic. They mostly don't want to know anything except "America is Great!" Why are we so "great?" I don't know we just are. Because we are free. Right?

I don't know about the grand conspiracy but it doesn't take a genius to realize we are heading in the wrong direction. The wealth of the rich has grown at an unprecedented level but the middle class is paying for it. The shrinking of the middle class is what worries me the most, it can only lead to bad things.

There will be a New World Order when the rich are so powerful that we have no other choice but to take what they give us to survive. The best way for Big Business to gain and retain power is to crush smaller business's, Wal-Mart is a good example of this. Wal-Mart can basically do what they want, the smaller super markets like Ralph's, Von's and Albertson's were trying to stop there expansion to super Wal-mart's but that failed. Now Albertson's will be closing something like 20 stores and I am sure the other's will probably be gone in 5 to 10 years if Wal-mart is not stopped.
Wal-mart is even going after electronics, we all know how bad Best Buy is doing and they are being bombarded by Wal-Mart, Costco and Amazon. Circuit City bit the dust awhile ago and Ultimate Electronics went by by and before those 2 was Tweeter that went away. Eventually Wal-mart will go hard against Costco with there Sam's club stores, it is just the natural progression.

There is no more fair competition in the US anymore, there used to be but all those regulations have either been reversed or ignored. Everything will be effected if this continues right down to health care, eventually everything gets bought up. Monopoly anyone?

[ichi the killer]

I used to work in the grocery industry many years ago. that was a good job back in the day. You could buy a house in southern california and raise a middle class family back in those days as a night time grocery clerk.

then came the eighties and Ronald Reagan. Grocery stores in those days were union jobs. Little by little those unions were broken down. They introduced "2 tier" wage levels where some people were "grandfathered' union members and the new tier was non-union. Guess who made double the wage for basically the same job? Union or non-union? Duh! Bad old unions demanding more money for their members. those poor grocery companies cannot afford to pay those wages. They need to make money for the stock holders.

A lot of those stupid grocery clerks voted for R Reagan. Idiots. They are just the same as nurses who will vote for Romney.