I think I hit the jackpot - if I can convert her
 

I landed a mid-20s civilian super hottie white girl, almost 10 status very petite hot hot girl to come over and massage me and for repeats. First time no HE but she worked the butt well and I think I can at least convert her to that but this girl is so hot I need to bang her. I know it will cost more so I started cheap with her to give me room to scale it up. She seemed quite shy to take charge and I don't exactly want to rattle her but I also don't want to be OK with minimal results.

I'm thinking I can go a bit pervy and just tell her I'd love a HJ for extra and then see how well she takes it. If she backs off then I saved myself $ but if she goes for it I want to push it to the dark side more each time she comes over. Anyone have similar experience? Normally I convert the girls within the first 1 or 2 times meeting but with others I could tell they were down for it from their vibe. With this one I'm so blinded by how hot she is that I'm not picking up a mutual DTF vibe. She probably gets guys offering dick to her all day long and I may need a less direct and subtle approach but without being so subtle I don't get anywhere with her.

This would probably be better in the private forum but I don't feel like dumping $50 on a gift CC right now just to have a discussion about this.

Where did you find her?

you just answered your own question. Go do it, and come back with a report....

lol I will go get the popcorn. stealth photo?? do a review so you can post in the VIP section.

I'd rather not describe how I found her, it's not the most common way and I don't want a hundred mongers lurking my bread and butter. I'll just say it's a little elaborate and takes a lot of patience.

I will of course jump into some perv action and see where it goes, I'm just being cautious not to get it escalated into big sums too quickly if she is down for it. Just wondering if anyone else has had these situations and what their MO is to subtle negotiations. I like the civilian girls who do this because once you get them at a certain range and are kind to them as well they will never ask for more and always be nice to have over without the clock watching.

Not sharing photos, sorry, this is not an advertising pro. She's a civvie girl who needs extra cash and is open-minded.

good luck !!! Converting a new girl is the most fun.

Obsessive. You know what you have to do. This is all going to come down to your game. I'm assuming you're at least a decent looking guy from the way you speak of past conversion. So at a minimum she is not appalled at the sight of you and rubbing you. So there might already be some physical attraction coming your way. You're just going to need to keep spitting the game and get her super comfortable. To a point where she wants it also. Then just make the subtle physical moves. I'm sure your radar will catch it.


Also. You talk of her needing the money. This may have been a case where a starting larger donation might have been better and then just keep it steady as things progress. That way it doesn't seem you are actually paying for more and she doesn't actually feel as if she is doing anything bad for money.

Maybe conversate about her money needs and give her a bit more next time without pushing her for more. Tell her you really enjoy the time together and you know she needs the extra dollars. That way she thinks you're doing it for her. Not for your needs.

best of luck. I think you will do just fine

Hey guys I met a girl. She's hot. I may try to FS her. Wtf? How is this even posted? If you aren't going to give real intel what was the point of your post?

Get her talking about her life. The more she opens up to you mentally, the more the thighs will follow.

Just figure all women have watched Pretty Woman and deep down they are programmed to think they can meet a great guy by whoring.

She will still want $300. All white girls think they are worth at least $300. Ask her to wear a bikini next time. Petite young blonds love to show off their body in a bikini. I suppose you are already flashing your package to her just be subtle about it. She probably already knows what to do.

You're odds are 50/50. Too many factors to tell. She's a civie but she goes and massages strangers for cash. She knows that you want her to do more.... Every guy she touches wants more. Every other guy tries to get more and she either does more or doesn't. OR... She does more for some and not for others. If it's the first.... You're not getting any. If it's the latter you have to figure that out. If she's like the girls on SA she knows what it takes to get the real money. She's not stupid. My suggestion is you ask her for a mutually beneficial arrangement. Tell her you will take care of her financially if she will take care of your needs. That doesn't sound as "pervy" as saying I'll pay you extra if you touch my dick. If you say to her... "You mentioned you needed extra money maybe I can help you" Joke with her and say... "I can be your Sugar Daddy" if she gets creeped out you can say you're joking... If she perks up to the idea you can make an arrangement.

I think all monger been through at one time or the other. My side of a story was a hit and miss for everyone. I don't know about the blonde, but my experience with Asian, was one girl that I went and see her at amp. First, was legit massage with teasing, it seen like there's nothing more. Usually you would go elsewhere, but in my case and because she is hot and friendly, I keep going back for teasing with rejecting for anything more. and one day to my surprise, I self serve and she help. Next feel times , I got hj.. and later I got LFK and some DFK. soon later I ask her that if I can massage her. and she let me, and several more times I got FS.

My next experience, was I saw a girl at AMP and first with HJ and the second time around I got FS. we can all said that she did offer FS, but the third time we exchange phone # and she offer to go to the hotel and got bbfs, back door and everything. and become my ATF..

I hope this help

Ok, so you're asking for advice from us but you don't want to give all the details. Makes no sense to me. That's like going to an attorney and saying "Look, I'm in trouble and I really would like your help. I'm not going to tell you what I did but can you please get these cops off my back and make this situation go away?" If you want specific help for a specific situation a few details would help...like where you met her. That's very important because each different scenario would require a different plan of action. If you don't want to give it up that's fine but it's not like anyone here could find her by you just saying where you met her. Again, your logic makes absolutely no sense to me. And you must not be much of a player or you wouldn't have asked for help in the first place.

I don't care about intel. Not yet. Work it and keep us posted.

And slow down.... Let it build.

So much time and money spent trying to get a girl to screw you. I thought that's why we have massage parlors. Get it done and get on with your life. Have you ever tried dating?

Yea richard. I did some of this years ago but i just don't have the patience anymore. It eventually took something special the first time to get me to come back. Usually some DFK or more.

Actually saw a chinese girl at a reviewed site on here today. I was her first customer. Her first day and her first customer. She gave a great massage. Seemed like hj only was coming. But i could feel some sexual tension. Lfk turned to dfk. Went to get tits out and she said for her bf only. By the end the dfk got deeper. Daty finally happened followed by a pretty damn good bbbj. Afterwards she seemed shocked what all went down. Seemed genuinely shocked. I talked her down to a point she seemed comfortable. I wouldn't doubt if i see her again that she may completely shuts me down

Dj110 location?

Rookie in the house ?

You seem scared to push it with her because she is a "10"If she was a Chinese laundry lady you would take a chance and not stress over the response..

Other than just asking for a hj.. Just self service and ask her to assist you rubbing other parts of your body.. If she is grossed out by you SS, or not willing to rub other parts of your body.. A hj will never happen .. If she does assist you,and not shy to look away ..you can push it further and further on each visit...

I recently had the same thing happen at my local legit massage place .. She is a solid 8+, so when the massage was ending I started to self service, she immediately started massaging my legs and handed me a towel when I finished.. Didn't look away , and most importantly was not grossed out .. So today I will ask for hj ..

I was addressing the OP, who is expending a lot of effort just to get any sort of "extra" from a girl he thinks is hot, fantasizing on the ultimate conquest and not thinking about what comes next--disillusion, regret, and shame.

I agree, what is the point of this? If we knew where she came from, then we would have a better understanding of her nature. If you are trolling CL or Backpage for outcall massage, then this girl is not shy and innocent. She just likes presenting that image.

What does it mean that you convert girls within the first 1 or 2 times? Do you have so much game that you convert a legit provider to give HE the first time? Or do you convert HE girls to FS the first time you meet them? I typically figure that if I get HE the first time I meet a girl, then I probably did not convert her. I have converted a few, but that took time and money and a connection.

Why tell us nothing relevant, and then ask for our advice. You know what to do. Use your charm and she what she is up for.

It's called a discussion.

This girl is under the radar, not from a massage parlor, not a pro. I'm just trying to have a discussion.

Where am I asking for advice? I just brought up a topic and wondering if anyone has ever had similar experiences. Get jumped on by some members who want me to give details as if I'm trying to give a review.

Got a little further with her 2nd time but still no HJ. I'll ask her to dress provocatively next time and I know at least that gives me more chance to let my hands roam. That often works a lot better than being wordy. With some being wordy works and with others it's like unspoken, like what's happening isn't really happening.

Someone asked what I meant by convert first 1 or 2 meets. I mean I take a girl who is normally not going to do anything past a certain point and get them to do a lot more for the same or barely any extra money. Maybe part of the lure for me is the challenge of getting the most extreme escalation, the most extreme being a girl who won't even give a HJ the first meeting to swallowing my cum by the 3rd for sometimes no extra $ expected. I'm terrible at dating, can't get any interest from women for anything genuinely romantic but this seems to work for me like fulfilling a form of sexual addiction. If I just wanted to nut there are 1,000 hookers I could choose from. With the lack of a real romantic life, this challenge and escalation gives me something more than what sex would alone. It's not easy to explain. I prefer girls who are not pros and ones who don't come over with the proposition that sex will take place, but also do come over because on some level it's not innocent either.

Obsessive. I completely understand where you are coming from. The thrill of the chase is almost more invigorating than the actual sex. Thanks for being what looks to be honest. Your use of sex addiction is inresting because i don't think it's the actual sex that many of us are addicted to. Like you said it is the thrill of getting a woman to do something she normally would not do. Maybe it's as simple as an ego boost, or perhaps deeper.

i do get a kick when dudes talk about how they turned a legit girl. As if she's been doing massage for a year or two or more. Seen hundreds of dudes and their cocks. And all of a sudden she can't control herself. The more likely scenario is that she is a selective girl who messes with dudes she clicks with or is attracted to.

Obsessive, believe it or not I am very similar to you. Yeah, sometime just getting a quick easy nut is fine and there are a zillion places and ways to get that....just look at all the reviews here. But I need a little more excitement in most cases and the feeling that it's not just about the cash.
Back several months ago I started looking into Seeking Arrangements and since then MANY MANY mongers from here have converted to SA. You were one of the naysayers that said something to the effect that if they will accept money for sex they are whores any way you slice it. Well, that's not the case and this avenue allows for the thrill of the chase and a gold mine of true non-pros. Yes 99.999% are looking for money in the end but they are not pros or whores. They are regular girls that for various reasons want to use this site as a means to an end. What I mean is it's not always about the money the way you think....but with a pro it's only about the money and NEVER any other reason. I'll give you a couple examples. I met a 27 smoking hot Korean/Colombian mixed girl. She is a RN and works 12 hour shifts and makes a good living. She also goes to school full time and is studying to become a plastic surgeon (she has 2 years more to go) She ALSO has a skin care blog that gets over 130,000 hits a day and she makes really good money from that as well....SO, I asked her why are you doing this, you obviously don't need the money?? She said "I don't have time for a traditional relationship. If I had a BF he would want to spend time with me as I would want to spend time with him and I can't have that kind of distraction right now. I need to focus on my career and schooling. This way I can schedule time to be with the guy I like but the money keeps the strings from getting attached" She also mentioned she will only see a married guy for those same reasons. Another girl I met for coffee earlier this week told me "I think I'm on the wrong site" I though she meant this dating older guys for cash wasn't for her....oh how wrong I was. She went on to say "all of the girls on this site just want money. I just want to meet an older guy that knows how to treat a lady and has something more to talk about than video games and partying" She lives with her parents and goes to school full time and said she doesn't need money...she has a nice place to live and food to eat and her parents pay for her school. She said "taking money for sex would make me feel like a prostitute" So I told her not to worry....I promise to never talk about video games if she promises not to ask me for money! LOL Last week I met a 22 year old Thai girl that wanted $250 for our arrangement. When we were supposed to meet she said. I'm going to be a little late and I have to leave earlier than planned because I have some family things to take care of. So we will only have about an hour together "Is that OK?" So, I know what she was doing...I'm pretty sure she wanted to set a short time limit in case she didn't like fucking me. So, I asked her....since we are only going to have an hour is it OK if I only give you $150 this time or do you want to reschedule. She happily agreed to $150 and we had an amazing time. She even said "you really surprised me and I'm really looking forward to our next time" NO HO would ever accept less than what was agreed to...she would have rescheduled or stuck to the $250 or at the very least countered with $200.
So that is just 3 examples of true non-pros from SA.
Also the opposite is true in some cases...we have pros trying to dress in GND clothing to trick us!!! I have Googled phone numbers of girls I met there that are BackPage, HX and CityVibe whores and in most cases quoted LESS on their whore ad than they tried to charge me on SA! Pays to do your homework ;)

The chicks rule
 

As this thread demonstrates, there is a subset of men who participate in this "hobby" for whom a sexual encounter is not the main goal. They expend their time and money to try to turn a session which had previously ended unsatisfactorily, from their standpoint, into one which they can label as a "success." Witness our aptly named "Compulsive's" two encounters with a masseuse from which he received nothing but a massage and who is now plotting his third meeting. If at some point he should get her to do more, one would be hard-pressed to convince him that it is not because of his winning character and persistency, but rather due to the SOP the girl is following which informs her how to keep and (if she plays him right) increase the cash-flow from his pocket to hers.

[quote=MPkid;81195]Obsessive, believe it or not I am very similar to you. Yeah, sometime just getting a quick easy nut is fine and there are a zillion places and ways to get that....just look at all the reviews here. But I need a little more excitement in most cases and the feeling that it's not just about the cash.
Back several months ago I started looking into Seeking Arrangements and since then MANY MANY mongers from here have converted to SA. You were one of the naysayers that said something to the effect that if they will accept money for sex they are whores any way you slice it. Well, that's not the case and this avenue allows for the thrill of the chase and a gold mine of true non-pros. Yes 99.999% are looking for money in the end but they are not pros or whores. They are regular girls that for various reasons want to use this site as a means to an end.

I find your parsing of motivations, as you believe them to be, behind "pros" or "non-pros" demands for money somewhat tenuous. Sure there are probably "non-pros" who lead otherwise regular lives, but are they using you any less for money than the "pros?" It seems to me a distinction without a difference.

You know. It's different strokes for different folks. You think obsessive is an idiot. Then move on and partake in a discussion on who is giving up anal to every John she sees. Talk like this is imo one of the best things about this site.

Agreed. It's fun to read non-pro or semi-pro exploits. It encourages conversation on this site which is a good thing. Read the Chicago complaints about lack of conversation.

Besides it's not like we can to our friends or work mates and say he what do you think about how I'm trying to turn a legit gal?

I don't know if his obsession makes him an idiot. It just seems like some guys get turned on by the concept of a "virgin slut" and to conquer her will make them feel a big man whereas the actual truth is they are being played.

Nah man. That whole statement is wrong. I mean you're speaking of your experiences. These ladies are not all The same. You are generalizing big time

I don't really believe I'm not being used in some way the same as I am using, but I've stayed platonic friends with some women long after the money and sex ended so there is an aspect of this where real connections happen. I don't know if I would have been their friend had we met any other way. Sadly, neither this nor trying to date normally have ever provided me true romantic success.

What I'm left with is what at least gives me some kind of semblance of soul-soothing. I'm not dumb and I know a big part of this is illusion, but if I didn't have this then I would feel completely alone in life and devoid of a reason to get up in the morning.

Wow your soul-baring makes me somewhat ashamed of my earlier criticisms. I myself have not had the same desire to befriend any of these women. If you crave female society so much why don't you try for a relationship that does not start on the lowest level? (I think you may respond that is why you are interested in this "really hot non-pro" who gives you massages--but isn't that still where you really want to go ASAP?)

[quote=Richard Boinkwell;81203]For the most part I agree. But I have had several SB that will accept less than the arrangement rate we agreed on just because they wanted to see me. I have also had another one that on a couple of occasions say (when I told her I didn't have the allowance to cover her this week) I don't have to pay...she just wants to see me.
Now, I don't know about you but I have never had a pro do that even long term ATFs that I saw on a regular rotation for years. NEVER a freebee for all of my good business. 'You could say maybe these GND girls are marketing geniuses and throwing me a freebee now and then keeps me in the club...but if you DO say that I'm not going to believe it. (Maybe I'm just an idiot "john" being played by these much smarter pros posing as good college GND) For sure the money in 99% of the arrangements is the main factor but not always the case. I have also had a couple that don't need the money....but the money keeps it from being a BF/GF kind of thing...so they aren't using me for the payday but want the money to separate the emotion and keep it a NSA arrangement. We say we don't pay these girls for sex...we pay them to go away...well that can swing both ways. Maybe they want the money so they can go away without an attachment too.
So YES...there are different levels of using money as a tool or means to a certain type of end in this hobby it's not always black and white sex for cash.

I was married for a while, but eventually decided it was not meant to be. My typical pattern is dating and/or living together for 3 - 5 years, then taking a break for a year or two, then repeating with a new girl. My problem is almost every girlfriend I have had wanted to get married and by the time we have been together long enough to consider it, I am already getting bored and thinking about banging every hot girl I see.

I remember Obsessive's threads from a long time ago. They were quite depressing and made me worry about the human condition for some. A lot of people reached out offering a lot of solid advice, although I don't know how it was ultimately received.

This type of comment is again concerning "I'm not dumb and I know a big part of this is illusion, but if I didn't have this then I would feel completely alone in life and devoid of a reason to get up in the morning.". Maybe better to spend your time and money figuring out how to connect with normal girls and have a normal relationship.

I would like to think this hobby is just for a little side fun. I guess different strokes for different folks applies.

I think this is where it gets complicated. I don't mean from an outside point of view, but from the point of view of my ongoing life experience. I hope I don't make this too long, I think it's difficult to explain maybe because it's not a common experience for most.

I have never been the one any woman would choose. Never is a strong word, there have been a couple of times I feel like a female on this planet has decided for at least a brief moment of her existence that I am worth being with even when she could have other choices. None of those moments lasted very long, the longest was about 2 weeks and that was almost 15 years ago and we never had sex and it was that lack of sex due to distance which I believe fizzled it. Another was 3 days but was in a foreign country. Another when I was 16 and had way worse self esteem then I do now and I couldn't handle someone giving a shit about me. That's it. Beyond those times I have never been the choice of any woman.

I think most men's life experience is that they are able to regularly feel wanted by some portion of women. I've learned over the years that a lot of mongers do this purely because of a sexual appetite and a desire for uncomplicated variety. For myself I do it because it fills a void.

I have been able to maintain some friendships with women, but ironically the only women I have had any long-lasting friendships from are 2 types - SO's of my male friends and women who at some point in the past I've paid to have sex with. In either case I feel like these women are put into a position in which they have to stay in the room with me. In all cases whenever I'm around women I think most find any excuse to get away from me. Some don't outright behave that way but it may be because when I first meet people I tend to have some kind of charming vibe (I've needed to learn that for emotional survival) but that takes energy and soon fades to who I basically am. I'm not a bad guy but can be dick-ish and rude as a self-defense mechanism. I lean toward the boring intellectual side. I beat on myself in my thoughts. I tend toward depressive thoughts. Not because I want to but the years of conditioning of having no other thought process when I was young. So of course it is a difficult thing to get past and a difficult thing to hide from women. I seem to get along better with guys who accept me more readily for who I am but because I'm usually the loner who is not appealing to the ladies, this is picked up on and I'm the friend who they watch movies or have a bite to eat with, not the friend to hang out where women congregate like the beach, bars, parties. I'm the downer guy. I don't want to be, I just can't escape it.

As to the lower level, I have a life full of experiences where trying to build a relationship with a woman without the sort of romantic chemistry that's needed always just leads nowhere. Women decide very quickly they don't want to be around me. They determine a use for me, whatever it is, and that is where they keep me. I'm not attractive enough to win them over without effort and when I put effort in they react in ways that I can easily read into that they feel they're being chased by someone they're not interested in, a lack of interest becomes avoidance and it's even worse than not even trying. My life full of rejections has yet to change.

I think this might help to explain what I seek out in this monger world. I am not literally looking for sex, not looking for just an orgasm. That's part of it but if that were the only thing then it would be easy. With money, it's easy to trip over sex at any time. But without money, trying to find a willing partner for me has been quite pathetic. I may set the bar too high as well which may blind me to options in the same way women are blind to me. It's not the abstract notion of finding the "virgin" to get to do dirty things, it's a way to get as close as possible to the feeling that at least on some scale I can find a woman who is as close as possible to a regular woman who isn't simply selling her body, get her in my presence for as little actual money as possible so I can feel like she is at least willing to be there without much pay for play, and then use whatever life has taught me to this point to take it as far as I can. Repeating this for some unexplainable reason keeps me sane and able to function in life but at the same time it burns my money and my time and stunts me from getting what I really want even though if I freed myself of this I have not seen very much in life to show that I could get what I really want.

Thanks, Obsessive. Now I'm depressed too. You know, you're an intelligent guy, but you have written a script for yourself that is a formula for failure. It's the script you're following, it isn't you. There are some real losers out there, who are far worse in reality than you are in your imagination, but they can find and keep women. Why is that? Think about it. You really are far superior to many men in certain ways and I think you know that. Why doesn't that work for you? It seems like you have decided that this is your lot in life and that is what you want it to be, at least subconsciously. As long as that is your attitude, your reality won't change. But maybe there is comfort in embracing rejection instead of fearing it. Haha. I let you suck me in once again.

Pathetic. Why nurture an OCD. I just hope he doesn't have any guns or ammo.

I would take it based on your personality that YOU have guns and ammo and probably shine the guns up every week. I'm not asking for help, douchebag. There are human beings who aren't built like yourself and their existence doesn't threaten yours. Hard for you to believe?

Well....if it happened once in a foreign country it could happen again. Take a vacation to Russia or Ukraine (just stay away from the war zone LOL) I remember you said you're not a fan of Asian women but it's a real option. If for nothing else to show that there ARE women out there that want to be with you....and before you say it...most are not just looking for a way out or green card. (unless you're talking about the Philippines then YES the average girl there would let you fuck her with a porcupine if she thought it MIGHT lead to a ticket out of that shit hole)