distinguish between indy and pimped

[dutycallsof]

Ok, so i recently got into amp and I know there is a dirty side to our hobby. I would like to believe that my financial contributions are to independent providers supporting themselves, the business, families, etc.. I don't want to fund an act that the provider is forced, beat, sold into, etc.. I don't care if the providers are illegal, the u.s. provides a better life to provide for yourself and family, no surprises here. What are your guy's opinions on this and how to avoid it (if you even care). My thoughts are that if the establishment has only dime providers which will offer fs to anyone who walks through the door, then something is up. My second amp I visited gave this bad vibe during my session and I can't shake the thought of supporting a (forced) provider. Thanks and looking forward to hearing from some vets in the hobby.

[8934217892008]

If they're an indentured servant they won't tell you so. If they sleep at the AMP and you see beds, sleeping bags they may be forced...or may just be broke and FOTB. I don't know how to tell for sure unless she looks scared or has signs of violence. Never saw that yet thank goodness.

I do care, and don't want to support that, but I'm not going all Sherlock Holmes before a rub and tug.

[Da Feiji]

I have only run across this twice. Both were Korean AMPs. One was in Downey several years ago. A very young Korean woman walked in and very, very ashamedly undressed in the room. That killed my desire to go on. I told her that she didn't need to do me and I tried to leave but she panicked and begged me to please stay. She seemed genuinely scared! I asked to just use her hand and she seemed really relieved and grateful that she did not have to do full service. After I came she cleaned me up and we sat down as she shyly held my hand looking down at the floor for the rest of the hour. As I walked towards the door she got me in a bear hug, kissed me and thanked me. the Papasan came out and asked me if she had given me "good service" and I reassured him I she had. I never returned but the look on her face still haunts me.
The second place was at Ace on Garvey in El Monte. Another young, pretty Korean seemed like she had been drugged...scared the shit out of me as her eyes kept rolling back and looked as if she was passing out but every time I tried to leave she'd wake up and grab my arm. I kept asking if she was ok and she kept telling me not to go or she'd get in trouble . Never went there again either!!!

[dutycallsof]

Yikes, that's scary to think about. Thanks for sharing i wish we could monger without worrying about the provider's motives being voluntary. I agree that having a provider appear frightened or have signs of abuse would be a red flag, i wouldn't go back either.

[samgoody]

In the 10 years that I've been active with this hobby I am glad/relieved to say I have never experienced anything even remotely close to what Da Feiji has described. If I ever did experience something like that it might be enough for me to consider giving up the hobby, it may be an over reaction but I just don't wanna patronize someone being forced into the business in anyway shape or form. This is why I usually go to my ATF and follow her where she goes...once in a while I try someone new just to keep things fun and not routine but I always find myself going back to my ATF...

[MPkid]

I have run across this a few times years ago at Korean places. The lady that I dated that owned the place above my shop told me how it worked back then. I think things have changed because the economy in Korea is the fastest growing in all of Asia so you don't see many young girls being shipped here to become prostitutes. Back then I spoke to several girls and the MMS I dated and they all had similar stories. Came to USA to get a legit massage job then found out the agency that placed them was owned by the Korean mafia. They were told they owed $50,000 for the cost of coming here,paperwork etc. Some said they were told they had to do FS until the money was paid back and others said they were told they could just do legit massage if they wanted to but once they saw they could never pay it back on $10 tips and the other girls were making $1000 a day they all went to FS. The MMS I knew said she would call a Korean taxi service and request how many girls she needed and the taxi company would round them up and bring them to the parlor. That was one of the reasons I took a long break from this hobby. Now the Chinese and Viets have taken over and I don't think they are being forced like the Koreans of years ago. Also I think most of the Koreans these days are in it for the money not because the K-Mob has them under their control. I just saw a young K-girl and she said she lives in Vegas and when she needs money she comes here for a week and works at an apartment.

[asiansam]

You really can't tell until you get to know them. The scared girl may just be new. Afraid of you, afraid of losing her job if the boss thinks she's not cutting it. The one with bruises could have an asshole husband or boyfriend (or the last customer was rough). If the bruises are perfectly round with defined edges, she's into cupping therapy. If they offer the world for chump change, they could be desperate, ignorant, or trying to convince themselves that by not asking for a big tip, they're not really whores. As someone said earlier, sleeping at an AMP could just mean they don't have a place to stay or they're trying to save money. All of these things I learned as my hobby education grew. Could some girls be coerced? Possibly, but the stats are against. Even the cops will admit that when they're not making sound bytes for Network TV. I have never yet met a girl who turned out to be forced into it, even if I suspected it in the beginning. I guess my message is, keep your eyes and ears open, and don't jump to conclusions. Things are not always as they seem.

[MPkid]

Here are some interesting stats http://www.onlineschools.org/visual-academy/stats-on-prostitution/

[Da Feiji]

Asiansam, you sound like you're trying to rationalize your addiction to this habit we all share by trying to say that there are other reasons for some of these girls behaving scared or panicky or drugged as in the two examples I cited .As MPKID stated this perhaps was more prevalent among the Korean providers a few years ago.
I've never gotten this vibe in the Chinese houses I've patronized. The Chinese girls that I have gotten to know outside of their work places usually are sending most of their monies back home to their husbands and families. the ones who sleep at the workplace either lived far away from there or were trying to save money. i used to spend the night with one sometimes who worked in the Valley but lived in San Gabriel and didn't want to go all that way every night.

[willb]

I been to a place in Sgv, del mar and valley area. I would't say they were forced, but I would say controlled would be more of accurate word. All 3 times I visited , the girl was driven to the Incall location. And twice I was surprised to learn the driver/ pimp was waiting downstairs by the front door. I would suspect Chinese nationals, working the fees they paid to get here. I'm more concerned by the adds on backpage, girls you can tell are controlled and forced by a pimp. I stay far away from those girls.

[asiansam]

Asiansam, you sound like you're trying to rationalize your addiction to this habit we all share by trying to say that there are other reasons for some of these girls behaving scared or panicky or drugged as in the two examples I cited .As MPKID stated this perhaps was more prevalent among the Korean providers a few years ago.
I've never gotten this vibe in the Chinese houses I've patronized. The Chinese girls that I have gotten to know outside of their work places usually are sending most of their monies back home to their husbands and families. the ones who sleep at the workplace either lived far away from there or were trying to save money. i used to spend the night with one sometimes who worked in the Valley but lived in San Gabriel and didn't want to go all that way every night.

So... what then? You're saying you agree with me? Or are you just trying to rationalize your hobby addiction?

I never said there wasn't coercion or "human trafficking" in the sex biz, just that I have never seen proof of it in an AMP or incall house, or with an "independent" provider, and I have been doing this for a very long time. The cops, the media and "activists" play it up big time for self-serving reasons (meaning MONEY!). They repeat it so much that everyone believes it, including mongers. What did I say? Keep your eyes and ears open, don't jump to conclusions and things are not always what they seem.

[Da Feiji]

ALL addicts use rationalization as a way of justifying their habits and that includes me and probably the majority of all of us here.That said, I have no regrets although I have cut way back from the days when I would visit 2 or sometimes 3 AMPs in a day. As far as Asiansam's question if I am agreeing, I guess we have had different experiences relating to whether or not some of these women have been coerced. All i can do is go by my experiences and perceptions. I believe most of the women are just trying to make a living with what they have to work with with the exception of the two examples I mentioned at the Korean AMPs.

[dutycallsof]

I agree with your comment will regarding backpage ads.some of those are obviously fake and some of them appear real but coerced or forced like you mentioned. Also those that mentioned rationalizing, i agree we all do it to an extent..whether a provider is forced or not we probably won't know for certain until we frequent an establishment and get to know the ladies.

[asiansam]

As long as we're on the subject, what would you do if you actually knew a girl was working off a debt in a massage parlor? I'm not even talking about illegal alien girls chained to a bed in a basement, La Eme-style, but a girl who is paying off the "organization" that helped her get here, and maybe promised her a job (but not THIS job). What would you do?

Would you boycott her establishment?

Would you call the cops?

Would you barge in and rescue her like Robert DeNiro in "Taxi Driver?"

Seriously, what would you do? And then ask yourself if the girl would really want you to do any of those things, and who would you be helping if you did?

I hear a lot of platitudes and posturing when speaking in general terms on this subject, but what would you do if you yourself were confronted with it?

[Hugh G. Rexion]

As long as we're on the subject, what would you do if you actually knew a girl was working off a debt in a massage parlor? I'm not even talking about illegal alien girls chained to a bed in a basement, La Eme-style, but a girl who is paying off the "organization" that helped her get here, and maybe promised her a job (but not THIS job). What would you do?

Would you boycott her establishment?

Would you call the cops?

Would you barge in and rescue her like Robert DeNiro in "Taxi Driver?"

Seriously, what would you do? And then ask yourself if the girl would really want you to do any of those things, and who would you be helping if you did?

I hear a lot of platitudes and posturing when speaking in general terms on this subject, but what would you do if you yourself were confronted with it?

I'd help her pay off the debt$100 at a time....if she was a shitty lay I would never go back

[MPkid]

As long as we're on the subject, what would you do if you actually knew a girl was working off a debt in a massage parlor? I'm not even talking about illegal alien girls chained to a bed in a basement, La Eme-style, but a girl who is paying off the "organization" that helped her get here, and maybe promised her a job (but not THIS job). What would you do?

Would you boycott her establishment?

Would you call the cops?

Would you barge in and rescue her like Robert DeNiro in "Taxi Driver?"

Seriously, what would you do? And then ask yourself if the girl would really want you to do any of those things, and who would you be helping if you did?

I hear a lot of platitudes and posturing when speaking in general terms on this subject, but what would you do if you yourself were confronted with it?

I have encountered this (years ago) and MMS was my GF and said don't get involved it is their business. She said if you go to police they cannot prove anything and the girl isn't going to testify in court and the shop would then get busted. If I tried to take the girl away from the "organization" they would want payment from me and or her or worse... (I guess they don't like their "property" being taken). Then she said something that really made me think...She said even if I was successful and got her out somehow....then they would need another girl to replace her and so they would bring a new girl in and it would start all over. So instead of saving one I would be creating another one. After that I took a 5 year break form this hobby.

Maybe Ichi can ask Choi how common this was 10 years ago or if it is still happening today in the Korean parlors.