Newt Gingrich.

[ichi the killer]

So Newt.... what kind of a name is Newt anyway? Isn't that some kind of amphibian? A Newt. Anyway... since Perry and Cain have kind of self destructed with their stupidity and poor impulse control which causes them to say the wrong things in front of the "liberal media" and grope mediocre looking women at their old jobs. It all comes out in the laundry, you know? Well anyways, it seems "Newt" Gingrich has risen to the top of the shit heap which is the Rupublican's excuse for potential Presidential candidates for 2012 by default. Makes you kind of miss G.W Bush in a way. All things are relative after all.

Newt Gingrich? Isn't he the guy from the "moral majority" of the 80's that Larry Flynt used to make "Asshole of the Month" in Hustler magazine time after time again? Newt Gingrich? Isnt he the guy who divorced his cancer ridden wife because the mastectomy, radiation and chemotherapy made her too ugly for even an amphibian like him to fuck? So he dumped her and got a young hottie. His wife later died of the cancer. A good Christian he is. The "Moral Majority" right?! I am a Christian and guys like Gingrich make me ashamed to be associated with his ilk by denomination.

Now, the latest dirt is the Newt has strong ties with the mortgage industry, namely Fannie Mae. Fannie it seems gave Newt a shit load of money in return for Newt's political influence. Fannie Mae is a strong reason why I and most of you all don't have much mongering money right now. The realestate bubble collapse and US economic depression which is ongoing at this time..

Oh well... It looks to me like the 2012 presidential election is Obama's to lose. Against those clowns Obama is a sure thing in 2012. Not that he is so great. It is just that the Republican candidates are so fucking weak. I did not even have to research that stuff about Newt Gingrich. I just remember reading that stuff before. Just wait till the media starts digging and they get that old fool up in front of a microphone. It is all relative my friends.:D

[Budget]

Thats right, this clown repudiated and divorced his sick wife, when she had cancer. Great morality! He also denies any liability for his "$1.7 mk consulting" work with Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae, and he's using the campaign to promote his book. Overall, the GOP candidates are sickening to watch and hear; but of course many right wing voters have double standards, suffer from amnesia or brain freeze.

[ichi the killer]

The Demoncrats and Obama have 2012 in the bag. Those stupid Republicans, with their hatred of elitist intellectuals have guaranteed their defeat November 2012 with their poor field of candidates. Gingrich? In boxing terms he is what used to be called a "tomato." What a chump Gingrich is. The Repubs must want to lose. Why would they choose him? Weird!

[OkiOpai]

The Demoncrats and Obama have 2012 in the bag. Those stupid Republicans, with their hatred of elitist intellectuals have guaranteed their defeat November 2012 with their poor field of candidates. Gingrich? In boxing terms he is what used to be called a "tomato." What a chump Gingrich is. The Repubs must want to lose. Why would they choose him? Weird!

Does foaming about politics make you feel better?

[truthmon]

On 60 min Obama in a rare moment of honesty said it may take another
president beyond a 2nd term for him to fix the economy.Nice admission that he is clueless.After he spends
the record billion to attack oponents I think the American people would
still rather vote for a monkey with an organ grinder before they give him
another term to inflick anymore of his lame idology. Just my humble opinion.

[ichi the killer]

Does foaming about politics make you feel better?
This is the political corner my brother.:)

[ichi the killer]

On 60 min Obama in a rare moment of honesty said it may take another
president beyond a 2nd term for him to fix the economy.Nice admission that he is clueless.After he spends
the record billion to attack oponents I think the American people would
still rather vote for a monkey with an organ grinder before they give him
another term to inflick anymore of his lame idology. Just my humble opinion.

Sir Issac Newton centuries ago described in his Third Law of Physics: "An object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by a force in the opposing direction with equal or greater force."

How does this apply to the American economy you may ask? It took George Bush 8 years to trash our economy, waste our budget surplus, get us into not just one, but 2 foriegn countries to fight wars of empire. Therefore: It is logical that it will take at LEAST 8 years, maybe more, to undo the damage done by 8 years of that simp GWB in the White House.

Or think of it this way: If some vandal gets into your house and trashes the place for 3 hours, shit on the floor, walls, break the furniture, etc.etc. It would take you not less than 3 hours to fix the house. Probably alot more time as it is easier to break things than to fix them. A simple analogy, but, I assume you are a Republican.:)

[truthmon]

No an independent in the OMG camp(Obama must go).The facts are very
clear.Bush screwed up big time with Iraq. Lost all his politcal power over
this ill advised action.It led to him not being able to get that jerk Barney Rubble(or is that Frank)pull back on the recklessness of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.Then the steamrolling of Princess Polosi with her spending binge the last 2 years of his Presidentcy.This then led to the inept idiolog
rule of Obama.With real leadership this country is capable of mending
significantly in about 2 years.I know except for the social justice joke
crowd then only the misinformed are voting for Obama. It does seem that Obama is justifiably toast.

[ichi the killer]

Obama vs. Gingrich? What are the odds? Dude, as I have been saying. I repeat: You guys are going to lose with that ticket. Please. :p

Sometimes the devil you know is better than the new one. I remember when i was just a young monger back in 2000 and the Supreme Court Justice Scalia stole the 2000 election from A Gore and handed it to rich oil boy Bush. My first reaction was "what the fuck? Oh my God! Now we are done in the ass and good." Bush did his concilatory/acceptance speech about being a "uniter, not a devider" or some such shit. At first I thought "Well maybe this won't kill us. 4 years of this ass and he will be out." Then 9/11 happened in the next year and Bush/Cheney took the scared American public goose stepping sharply to the right with a mandate. Not for just 4 years, 8 years. Bad luck all around.

I have to hand it to those assholes though: Chenney/Karl Rove...while they are pure evil. They are brilliant in their evilness. I salute that kind of thing. Don't be mediocre, excell at what you do. Those guys fucked over so many people with their eyes wide open. Brilliant! Remember "Swiftboats for Truth?" How Rove/Swiftboats for truth deflected Bush's draft dodger status by taking John Kerrys war record and turning it it around on him? John Kerry, a decorated veteran of combat who actually killed VietCong fighters with an M16 while George W Bush was stateside getting arrested for DUI, snorting coke and probably mongering.

Swiftboats for Truth: "Wait a minute. That Vietnamese guy in the black PJ's was not armed? And he was only 17. He had his back turned to Kerry and was running away? It was not a fair fight." That is what guerilla fighters usually do. Don't engage in direct combat. Ambush/ war of attrition. Asymetrical warfare. Stick and move.

Incredible! That was just brilliant! Outstanding!! The American people largely fell for it. Absurd.

[truthmon]

Ichi I agree with your summery of recent political history-it is fairly
stated.
But I dont think you have open eyes now.Everything Obama has
rammed down American throats has failed or destined to fail.The
real shame is none of it has anything remotely desighed to heal or
jump start the economy.Actually with Obama care-preventing
the Canadian pikeline etc.he is going in the opposite direction.Nice
guy that doesnt have the knowledge or experiance to get the job
done-no less quickly.
I am not a fan of Newt but I am convinced he has the tools to
do alot more good and could do the country a service if he can keep himself under control.
Now if it was Newt vs Obama hands down Newt would win.So would
Mitt.Polls show in 12 swing states that Obama won in 08 he would
get beat in each state head to head to Newt and also Mitt. That would mean Obama can not get enough electorial votes to win-ie toast!
Check the facts and the reality of the present situation and you will
come to realize things will start getting on a better road 13 long months
from now.

[ichi the killer]

If you think Newt is going to win, I know a nice massage parlor in the valley I can sell you. We have an allstar girl named Sugar who works there. It's called Welness Healings.:)

[truthmon]

Your a funny guy Ichi.If Newt does get the nomination it
would be his election to lose-do the electorial math.And he wont let
Obama run from his record and will make Obama look like the fool in
the debates.Then Obama will be remembered as the Jimmy Carter
in spades of the 21st century.

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon. Hi brother. You know what I like about the internet?

Good porn sites.
You can find good massage parlors and escorts.
Internet banking.
Lot's of training tips on Youtube for bodybuilding.
You can see lot's of MMA fights on youtube.

And last but not least: You can type up questions like "Obama vs. Gingrich 2012. What are the odds? Who would win?"

So I did just that. Guess what? All the polsters say Obama is the safe bet to win over Gingrich by about an 8 point spread. Reuter's Ipsas poll 12/14/2012. If you bet on Gingrich you are betting against the house brother. Good luck with that. I think the Obama team could not be more pleased that it looks like he will go up against the Newt in 2012. A soft opponent if there ever was one.

Ginrich has so much dirty laundry/skeletons in the closet. The Obama team has not even started to attack him yet. Gingrich is a dirty dog so called Christian fat old hypocrite. Gingrich vs Obama debate? Obama is a very strong debater. Even his harshest critics admit that. Obama is a smooth charming talker. He will fuck up Gingrich.

Obama care? Do you work in healthcare Mr Truthmon? i hate to bore you, but I do work in healthcare. I get to see this stuff all day/all night. Plenty of time to think about it.

Granted; Hospitals are obligated to treat the sick people who show up at their door. "Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Law Act." [EMTALA 1986] So; If Pedro Hernandez 19 year old gang member shows up via "homeboy ambulance."AKA his fellow gang members drove him to outside the ER and dumped him there, the hospital is obligated to treat Pedro for his multiple gunshot wounds. Naturally Pedro has no insurance. He is not even a legal resident of USA. No matter. Hospital still has to treat him. [EMTALA] signed in 1986 by Ronald Reagan is a federal law that makes it a crime for hospitals to discharge medically unstable patients over monetary concerns. AKA the ability, or lack of ability for the patient/insurance to pay for services rendered by the admitting hospital. This practice is called "patient dumping." Refusing to treat a medically unstable patient for lack of insurance.

Do you have any idea how much that costs? Pedros little adventure which may involve weeks in the ICU and more time in medsurg, not to mention the ER and the OR. The care of multiple specialist doctors. The tab can be close to 1 million dollars. Maybe even more.

Hospital gets reembursed partial by fed government [which is cash poor] partially by the state [which is cash poor] and the hospital eats the loss partially. One reason why medical care/insurance premiums are so high is because the people who have insurance are basically paying for the people who don't have insurance. Somebody has to pay. It is not free really. "Not for Profit" whatever. Money keeps the lights on period. So: if everybody was Federally mandated to have insurance the cost would be more spread out. Insurance and healthcare would be cheaper. So the logic goes. Obama care. Socialized medicine/universal health care. Books have been written on this subject. I can't really do it justice in a few paragraphs.

Side story: I have insurance. I also have an esophogeal stricture. This is a condition where your esophogus at the cardiac area of your stomach has scar tissue so sometimes if you don't chew your food meat will get stuck there. You can't swallow, it is very uncomfortable and scary. Your throat goes into spasm. It could actually kill you if the food gets stuck high enough to block your trachea. One day I was tired a couple years ago and I was stressing. i was eating steak at the table. Not chewing my food well. i got a big hunk of meat stuck in my esophogus. I could breath, but can't swallow. I mean you can't swallow spit. you just drool and spit. The only thing you can do is wait for the spasm to release and either swallow the meat or try to puke it up. I tried and tried. i could not clear it. A couple times in my life I have had to go to the hospital to get it cleared with a GI endoscope. This was one of those times. i waited 6 hours and finally I had my wife drive me to the ER. They did a little EGD [esophagogastroduadenoscopy] with dilitation procedure. It involved a little sedation and a 10 minute procedure then recovery. I had to stay the night because I came late at night and the GI doc was not there till 7 am. Don't get me wrong. I am grateful for the care rendered. The inability to drink water is not a life sustainable condition. You either have to take in fluids or die. So, they saved my life.

You know how much the hospital billed my insurance? $40,000.00 dollars. The insurance later setteled with the hospital for the fee of $14,000.00. I paid my co-payment of $10.

Another side story: I had to get dental work done last year. I had let my teeth kind of go for years. I hate dentist really. i am afraid of dentists. They remind me of torture scenes I saw in different movies before. "Marathon man." ETC. I brushed them and flossed them regular, but I had a couple broken ones in the back and some other problems. So I took my little PPO insurance card to the dentist. They checked out my mouth. "You need 3 crowns, a root canal, a gum surgery, an osteo surgery, and while we are at it we could change out your mercury fillings for pretty white ceramic ones. The ceramic ones are non-toxic. The mercury fillings are slowly poisoning you." OK. How much does my insurance cover? $1000.

I got the work done.It cost me out of pocket $9,000, but now my teeth are beautiful. A good pornstar mouth really. Don't you hate it when the porn girl opens her mouth for the "money/cumshot"and she has a bunch ugly fillings and cavaties in her mouth? Uck,that kills it. Not for me, though. My teeth are all nice and white now. Thanks to Visa and my dentist. I had to get the work done really. if I did not want to get sick down the road, no choice. Bad teeth will kill you. Bacteremia, Sepsis, endocarditis, vegetations on the heart valves. Not to mention pain and infection/abcess. So I had to pay. Not negotiable. Dentist: "Pay me the money now. Either pay first or take your rotten teeth the fuck out of my office now, please.I am a busy man. Pay me now and I will work on your teeth in 10 minutes. It is up to you, Player. Your move. You do have a credit card, right?"

Meanwhile: Pedro's surgery was basically free for him. He paid nothing and now he is well again living his gangster life selling drugs, committing crimes, getting more tattoes, listening to gangster rap on his I-phone and making babies. Is that fair?:)

[truthmon]

On sports.ladbrokes.com updated as of 11/4/2011 Gingrich is 4-1 to win the presidency in 2012.Two things to consider.Alot has occured since
11/4 with the Gingrich campaign.Also the odds will be high on republican
candidates untill they secure the nomination.Hey Ichi my friend if they
do debate please do not watch it.Gingrich talking on substance will
destroy the slick talking Obama.I wouldnt want you to become impotent
because of this.
Now the illegal Pedro and his $1 million dollar hospital bill wouldnt be covered
by Obama care.The tax payers would have to pay as is the case pre-Obama care.This affordable health care act is anything but.By all
scorings the cost of health care will go up quicker.Add to that the
new cost of just the regulations-$1 trillion over 10 years and this
says to me and millions others amateur hour has to come to an end
in the white house.
Yes ichi Obama will spend a billion dollars running a negative campaign-because hes like that.
But OMG(Obama must go)

[ichi the killer]

I looked on your site ladbroker.com. It says Democrat wins the electoral college 410+. Obama wins 2012. They think Gingrich will be the Repub nominee by 5/4 odds. Sorry. I am just reading the numbers. This is from your own site. Truthmon, what are you smoking?:) If you are going to cherrypick the internet for a site that says Gingrich wins 2012, read it more carefully my brother.;)

[ichi the killer]

On sports.ladbrokes.com updated as of 11/4/2011 Gingrich is 4-1 to win the presidency in 2012.Two things to consider.Alot has occured since
11/4 with the Gingrich campaign.Also the odds will be high on republican
candidates untill they secure the nomination.Hey Ichi my friend if they
do debate please do not watch it.Gingrich talking on substance will
destroy the slick talking Obama.I wouldnt want you to become impotent
because of this.
Now the illegal Pedro and his $1 million dollar hospital bill wouldnt be covered
by Obama care.The tax payers would have to pay as is the case pre-Obama care.This affordable health care act is anything but.By all
scorings the cost of health care will go up quicker.Add to that the
new cost of just the regulations-$1 trillion over 10 years and this
says to me and millions others amateur hour has to come to an end
in the white house.
Yes ichi Obama will spend a billion dollars running a negative campaign-because hes like that.
But OMG(Obama must go)

When do Republicans ever talk substance? All I ever seen them do is rehearse and repeat talking points ad infinitum. Like Sarah Palin reading notes off her palm. That was classic. Made me proud to be an American. A true equal opportunity nation of dunderheads. Duh! Guess it goes to show you. I remember when I was in first grade they told me maybe I to could grow up to be the POTUS. They tell that to everybody. Some people actually believe it.

They were seriously considering nominating Palin till she dropped out. Incredible.

[Lector]

notthetruthmon, stop pretending you're an independent. That is code word for voting for the elephant in the room and not fessing up with the consequences after the pubes screw up. Gingrich is even more far right than Romney, that no-soul moron who's turned more coats than Coco turned tricks.

[truthmon]

No lechez I am not an elehant but obviously you are a donkey.I voted for Obama in last election thinking he would follow the path say a Bill Clinton
did.He made me feel foolish by me voting for him.I am part of the 20% that arent married to a political party but swing elections one way or the
other.I would never let a political party moron tell me that a Palin is
a bad person because she scribbled some notes on her hand when their
guy relies so heavily on a telepromter.One great thing about this country
is you dont have to turn into someones politiical idiot unless you really
want to.

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon...I know you. You go by many names. Lucifer, Beezlebub, Satan, Dark Prince, Ruler Supreme of the Underworld, Fallen Angel, Dick Chenney, Karl Rove, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and lastly Dick Brain. I know you! My nemesis has returned again. I thought you were up North in Sacramanto area Dick. What happened? :)

[truthmon]

Ichi I dont know you but you seem to be cool when you talk about
about your hobbying or your marriage.Some times people get sensitive
talking about politics or religion especially if they rely on someone
else to do their thinking for them.Thats why negative politics sometimes
work and they even get otherwise smart people to repeat the silliest
things.So brother I am hoping you are not taking any of this personally.

[ichi the killer]

Nah, not personal. i just like to try to exercise my brain by writing on a wide range of topics. If the other guys on the other side, that's no problem. Otherwise i am just argueing with myself. Not personal. It cool. I try to be clever and funny sometimes. it works sometimes. Other times i fail. It's allright Truthmon/Dickbrain/Lucifer.:) I can't write about mongering much because i have to keep that on the low-low. You guys are probably tired of hearing about bodybuilding dieting Choi and the Korean mafia. so that leaves politics.

[truthmon]

Your okay in my book Ichi.

[Turn over please]

This guy Ichi is trying to portray himself as some sort of intellectual. But in reality he is a hater; he hates white people and in his twisted world republicans represent the white population of the U.S. All of his attacks are on republicans be it Cheney, Bush, Gingrich, whomever. So show some guts little man and tell us what you really think or are you just afraid of showing all of us what you really are?

[ichi the killer]

No, turnover. i am no intellectual and I don't think I am a hater really. I am not a racist and I don't remember ever being accused of being a racist before. I am 1/2 German, 1/2 Japanese. Maternal grand parents from Kyoto Japan. Mother was born in San Francisco. Father was born in Saint Joseph Missouri. His parents immigrated from Germany. So why would I hate white people? Actually i am a fairly stupid guy and i know it. I don't descriminate, though i prefer my women asian or at least brunette and petite. Like my mother, i guess. We all want to fuck our mother and kill our father, right?

I have friends representative of all races. I train with a white guy at the gym sometimes. I know him from work and he asked me to train him, so we work out and I teach him stuff. At work the coworkers that I am closest to are mostly Hispanic. Just happens to be that way. I am on good terms with people of all races. I don't necesarily hate Republicans. They just have a different view point/agenda than I do.

I read about politics because that is a thing that has interested me since I was very young. I was very interested in WWII when I was a child. My family on both sides were from the "axix." I was puzzeled about the whole thing. How a few people could incite many people to do such horrendous acts on whole populations. Commit genocide. So i read and read about politics and war.

Now I read editorials. I don't read the sports page much , Sports like basketball/football/baseball have always bored the shit out of me. I do like MMA and sometimes boxing though, so i check the sports page for news about that.I like fights and war I guess.

I don't discuss politics at work because many of the people i work with are Republicans. They are doctors mostly and some nurses. Most of the doctors, by the way, are not white. Maybe 1/4 of the Doctors i work with are white. 80% of them are Republicans. I understand where they are coming from. They want to protect their wealth, which by the way is dwindling. So, they are Republicans. If I made more than 300K a year i would probably be a Republican as well. What I don't understand is "poor Republicans." Like some nurses and technologists that I know. They don't have or make much money so i think that by being Republican they are voting against their won best interest.

I don't need to get into fights with doctors over politics. I won't convince them and it will just enrage them. People get very upset over politics. Doctors are hurting just as much as everybody else these days. i know Doctors who have foreclosed on their houses. When your 1.5 million dollar house drops in value to 900 thousand dollars you just lost a grip of money. Same as the "99%." Only on a grander scale. I know more than a few doctors who are struggeling big time financially. They are scratching to get every dime they can. Sometimes I see them do things, or try to do things that are flat out unethical to make a few hundred dollars. They are hurting just as much as everybody else. So naturally they don't want to get their taxes raised. I understand that.

I discuss mongering at work more than politics. Mongering does not make anyone mad. Politics is a touchy subject. I can write about it on here because nobody is going to get in my face. i just like to write and writing on here is cheaper than going back to school.

i know that intelligence is relative. There are different kinds of intelligence. Some people seem very unread and stupid. Maybe they can't/don't read much, but when it comes to machines or computers they are very smart. Some people know one or two things ver well but about life they are ignorant. I know some doctors and nurses like that. They know about medicine, thats it. Nothing else. Sometimes I think I am very clever and then meet someone who is on a whole different level than me and I am an idiot/sympleton compared to him/her. I know that. So I am pretty quiet when i am with people that i don't know well. I try not to impress them. i just listen to them and try to get a reading on where they are at.

[ichi the killer]

I just read today that 4 congress house law makers are being investigated for getting innapropriate VIP loans from failed savings and loan giant Countrywide. 3 of the four congressmen are Republican dirty dogs. Countrywide was a big one in the housing collapse with subprime mortgages as you recall. I wonder if Newt had any hand in that dirty business?

[truthmon]

Yes Ichi 4 unnamed is correct. Prior to this 2 were proven to get the VIP
loans from Countrywide-both Dems.Chris Dodd was one. Dodd also authored
the Dodd-Frank bill in essance protecting BOA who purchased Countrywide
and put small banks in jeopody.Wouldnt you agree this bill should be repealled-an opinion held by many except of coarse Obama.
Now somehow your throwing Newts name into this.Sheer insanity!

[ichi the killer]

Newt is involved with "big dog/dirty dog" Fanny Mae/ Freddy Mac, so it would follow maybe he has his dirty little paw in Countrywides as well.

I been talking to the Republican doctors in a neutral way. The doc's I been talking to mostly don't think Newt will ultimately get the nomination. Even they think Newt is too sleazy and nuts. They think Romney will get it.

I have not been studying Romney yet. I may have to change my target of attack. I don't hate Romney as much as Newt, maybe because I don't know that much about Romney yet. One thing for sure. I hate Newt and everything he stands for.

[truthmon]

I agree with doctors your talking with I dont think Newt will get nomination.Newt wasnt though proved to be involed with the slime of
Freddie and Fannie.Now Barney Frank that is a different story-he was.
May I suggest Ichi you spend some time looking into the astronomical
damage Obama done.He makes Bush look like little league when it comes
to "f"ing things up.If you did this honestly I assure you it would be OMG(Obama Must Go).Thats a no brainer if you love this country(And all the
providers in it-haha).

[Lector]

wow, which planet do you live on, youranus?
Bush and Regan are the ones who fucked it up. very simple strategy: bleed the coffers, and they'll have to cut the programs they never liked. Re-pubes-licans are the same people that resisted abolitionism, woman's right to vote, civil rights, unions rights, any kind of regulation that now allow us to breathe and drink relatively safely. Obama, in the time of half a term only, has done more than any other president. He even managed to pass a health care law that no president in the last 40 years could pass. And don't give me the cool-aid pubes are feeding their flock, that reform was recommended by republicans before Obama, realizing he couldn't pass the single payer system (what a shame), wisely played the pubes at their own game. Now Morron Romney is left like a circus clown trying to explain that it's his plan, but not, well, kind of, but hey, nobody on the right is smart enough to read anything, I'll just deny it...
I would prefer the Grinch to run cause i know he'll self destruct, and he would so well represent the true Pubes party, with his "fake" christianism. Romney, he's a slime, can't hold him. very dangerous. My only hope is that too many self-righteous new-borners just can't make themselves vote for a high ranking almost-prophet-level mormon, that's like wearing nikes and drinking cool aid waiting for the comet.

[ichi the killer]

Lechez you are right. Reagan=spend all the money on military build up then there will be none left for social programs.

Bush=spend it all on wars.......

Newt will self destruct.

Romney is Mormon so the Christian right can't support him.

[truthmon]

Lechez you are the dumbest ass I ever heard that is pretending to
know something. Besides being flatout dumb your shit exposes you as
a prejudice bigot.Man I never ran accross a bigger dumbass like you.You
actually think the 5 trillion he added to debt, the higher unemployment, more people dropping out of the work force than are getting new jobs
is all good.Bro you are stupid when you say Regan was no good-he who
cleaned up Carters mess.And that is only a sample of Obamas incompetance.

[Lector]

notruthman, please stop feeding your shrunken brain out of the FoxNews tube.
I'm not so sure you know what i mean, it might be to late for you. oh well...

[truthmon]

Hey Leech shit. What a moron you are. You confess you want your
social program money. Obviously you cant make it with out expecting every
one else to take care of you.And you have the balls to speak up
around real people?Do what you do best -crawl into a corner and eat
crap. I am sure you look like shit and smell accordingly. Why else would
you beg like a two-bit whore for handouts.

[ichi the killer]

Mr Truthmon. You have got to admit...You don't really argue the points that Lechez brings up. Instead you take the classic "Fox News" strategy ala Bill O'Reily/Sean Hannity/any other of those Fox News douche bags and you just throw out insults. If the computer had a volume I am sure you would be shouting them. On Fox, those jack asses basically just shout down their guests who take an opposing view to Foxes "fair and balanced" Republican right wing view. I hate everything on Fox.

Name calling is a very pedestrian tact to take in an argument. You should try to be a little more civil. Stick to the points. Don't take it on a grade school personal level. I'd be interested to read your arguement.

[Lector]

Listen to brother ichi, notruthman. Learn and grow from it. You have a long way to go from the very early stage of evolution you seem to have been stuck in. Still swimming? This is a forum for ideas, insults are crass. Have some WIT! and you'll earn your place.
one more fact for you and you won't hear that on Faux-News:
hen you have a chance, thank Obama for cleaning up Bush-lite mess in Iraq. And have a minute of silence or two for the 100,000 Iraqi civilians who died of very awful death because that Harvard fake wanted to show his dad that he had bigger balls. And you 'll be thanking me to teach you that the ONE thing Bush-lite said was the most stressful of his 2 presidencies, the non-elected one and the People-are-brainwashed one was: wait, drum beat..... the most stressful moment of 8 years in the white house, 2 wars, 9/11, countless crisis was: the time he had to throw the opening strike for a baseball game! WTF???

[truthmon]

Ichi backup and read the posts of Leehez before you accuse me of
anything.I was just responding to that peabrains aggression.
I pointed out just some of Obamas shortcomings.You guys have
alot more knowledge of fox news than I do.It is not hard to see
how Obama failed on every count.
The only thing that was pointed out by Leehez was the health care
thing.This induced 28 states to sue the federal government.Now
thats a first.Also 4 states are sueing the feds about illegal immigration-
another first.When the economy and job situation is in crisis his answer
was to waste 5 trillion-and things are only worse.How about a discussion
about his joke of a foreign policy-huh?.When all is said and done Obama
will go down as maybe our worst president-for among other things
sharply deviding this country.
Now if jerkoff comes back with another meaningless insult-Ill really let you
know how I feel about things.Hey Ichi we may not see things the
same way-but you can do alot better than siding up with classless Leehez.

[ichi the killer]

I'm not taking sides, I just happen to be more in agreement with Lechez than with your stated views Brother truth. Obama foriegn policy? The last thing I read Mr Obama got us out of Iraq. 9 years too late. But wtill we are out. Too bad we went there in the first place. Whose Idea was that? Invade Iraq?

So far no terrorists have hit us at home with a major attack ala 911 since Obama has been president. Who was president on 911? Sorry.

[truthmon]

Ichi I didnt think this was a thread on Bush.I like many think getting into Iraq was the wrong thing to do.9/11 was an uncoordinated intelligence
system that was put in place before he took office and he didnt fix.
But now our President is Obama.Obama seems to be governing for political
reasons-a dangerous strategy.Iraq is weird.Even though consistantly
Obama came out against our involvement-even going against the surge
that worked-he waited till less than a year before the election to pull
our compatants out.What confuses me is that everything I read says that
Maliki insisted on this- giving Obama no choice.
The rest of Obama policy in my opinon is even more weak.Obama doesnt
seem to stand for anything-how un-American.

[truthmon]

Oh and Ichi I dont care if you are more inline with Leechez views on
this topic.My comment was direected at the getto language and mentality
he introduced into this thread.

[trooth]

....Then the steamrolling of Princess Polosi with her spending binge the last 2 years of his Presidency.This then led to the inept idiolog rule of Obama...

The spending binge was launched by the Reps before Pelosi became Speaker. Pelosi didn't increase spending, EXCEPT for the 'TRAP' which was necessary to avoid disaster. If you don't think so, then go argue with Paulson and Bernanke.

[truthmon]

Alot of wasteful spending by all-the country has a real problem.
Break down of national dept:Bush first 6 yrs 2 1/2 trillion added
Bush with Pelosi speaker last 2 yrs 1 1/2 trillion.Bush did veto
Pelosi massive Omibus spending bill.Right after Obama sighed the
stimiless bill-Pelosi repassed the omibus bill and Obama sighed without
fanfare.Obama so far in 3 years added 5 trillion to debt.
IMO I see only two ways out .Continue spending at these rates and
let it lead to double didget inflation to cheapen the debt(govts problem
becomes ave citizens problem).Or have large spending cuts and endore
that pain-but with a shorter duration.That is what the 2012 election
will decide-don't you think?

[ichi the killer]

What would you suggest they cut? Welfare? Healthcare safety net for poor people? Medicare? Military? Social security? What is left to cut?

The situation we are in now in a simplistic anology is like this: A guy takes home say 6 thou per month [just an anology] His house is 3 thousand per month, car payment is 500 per month, insurance is 100 a month, gas is 200 a month, food is 600 per month, electricity, trash,gas water, HOA =700 per month= Grand total necesary spending=5100.
That leaves 900 descretionary spending money.

His wife runs up the credit cards. Now his credit card bills are 600 per month. Ok. He takes home 72 thousand a year but is effectively broke. What should he cut? Food? Car? Housing? Either that or he needs to make more money. What a conundrum.

[truthmon]

I agree Ichi.We are in too deep.I think if you cut just a little from everything that would be a reasonible start.Then cut 10% from the
size of the govt would go along way to resolve problem.At that point
it would make sense to raise taxes on the higher earners as things would
be on firmer ground.Yes there would be some pain but the outlook
would be brighter.I travelled lots seen very high inflation take its toll.
I would think if people realize what this does to the middle class and
poor it would be avoided at all costs.

[trooth]

Newt is involved with "big dog/dirty dog" Fanny Mae/ Freddy Mac, so it would follow maybe he has his dirty little paw in Countrywides as well.

I been talking to the Republican doctors in a neutral way. The doc's I been talking to mostly don't think Newt will ultimately get the nomination. Even they think Newt is too sleazy and nuts. They think Romney will get it.

I have not been studying Romney yet. I may have to change my target of attack. I don't hate Romney as much as Newt, maybe because I don't know that much about Romney yet. One thing for sure. I hate Newt and everything he stands for.

Your doctors have it mostly right. Newt is a loose canon and shoots from the hip. His opinions are like Cheney's bullet sprays when he hunts for birds. They fly off in all directions. And he sure is sleazy and unstable. The Dems would have to run someone un-electable for Newt to have a chance at the Presidency. The Reps would never give Newt the nomination.

For me, I would rather see Newt run against the Dems than Romney. For the entertainment factor. But I really don't want to see a hatchet man like Romney running the country. He knows very little about creating jobs and a lot about eliminating jobs. And he's an enigma. A Republican who governed Massachusetts. Wild.

[Lector]

nothruthman, gotta be little more witty than that! insults won't make you friends 'round here. come on! apply yourself!
your special case intrigues me. so you don't like Bush, but did you vote for him? I somewhat don't see you having voted for Kerry (the real war hero).
Anyway, old news...
Today, the Pubes have no one to turn to. They went for every flavor of the month to try to avoid Morron Rumney, and now they're into Santorum! (gotta google that name to know what he stands for! Thanks Dan Savage!) Why is that? Because they are all very low IQ and very high EGO.
Who are they trying so desperately to replace? a truly higher intellect, a great orator, a true american dream story like Clinton, but, come on, he's black! he must not know what he's doing! yes, racism is still very much prevalent in a Pube's mind.
I'm not going to make the long list of everything Obama has accomplished before he was obstructed by the meanest, despicable band of Pubes ever elected to Congress. He saved the country and the world from ever harsher economical ruin. And he had to step in it even before his inauguration. I'm mad at him for not pushing for even more reforms in the financial sector (thank you Barney F. and Elizabeth Warren for standing up as long as you could!) and giving up on the single payer idea. His policies lately have been taken straight from the Pubes' agenda and they still opposed them! Let's be honest here. They'd rather sink the country 1 more year to hope to avoid a 2nd glorious Obama term. I call that treason. Hang 'em high!
Government is NOT the problem. Government is your friend and protection against the 1% or the rascals who would make you breathe asbestos to save a buck. But the Pubes have bled the coffers to make themselves richer, and now we have bad roads, one of the world 's worst healthcare system, education in crisis, overcrowded prisons... Open your eyes! why would you allow the Waltons of Walmart to hijack this country? 6 members of the Walton family have the same net worth as the bottom 30% of American families combined! Make them pay their due share in taxes (pre-Regan) or the people will eventually march in and claim their cake....

[truthmon]

I see what leechman wants. What someone else earns-and he doesnt
even try to deguise it. Facts are all wrong as well as his logic applied.
Leechman I know you cant deny it your a Dem across the board
and your here to read all the talking points you are brain washed to
recite-regardless how rediculous some of that is. Like I said I am
an independent and not shackled by any of that nonsence.But this
time around I cant vote for anyone that added 5 trillion to the
national debt in 3 years who called Bush incompetant for running
up 4 trillion in additional debt in 8 years. Thats not a racial thing
its just common sence.Oh and Leech if you were suggesting I might
want to be your friend ,forget that I have minimum intelligence standards ,and you dont come close to meeting that.

[trooth]

The debt grew because the gov't blew up the economy in 2008. So there was no revenue and extra spending to try to keep the economy from crashing again. But O'Bama has lowered taxes throughout his term, so he has my vote. I just don't see Romney beeting O'Bama. The Reps blew it by not finding a winning candidate. I think they should focus on the Senate and stop wasting energy trying to defeat O'Bama.

[truthmon]

It is scary that a strong candidate has not emerged against Obama
yet but in the end he must and will be beat.Obamas policy stiffles economic growth and job creation.Big government does that-take
a look at unemployment rates in Europe, very high even before
their debt crisis.
So what does the big government guy do to make sure his dismal
record is not the focus of the election.Blame the rich guy because
they are earning money that belongs to someone else-or something
like that.Now the facts that 50% of Americans dont pay any Federal
income tax-while the top 1% pay about 60% of the entire federal
tab.And they employ millions.Now the fun thing is this top 1% has
total wealth of about 1 and 1/2 trillion.Take everything they own
and make from them and it equals to 1 full year of an Obama
deficit.Then what would you do with the millions working
for them-let them work for the govt and have the tax payer
pay their salary?That surely wont be the 50% that dont
pay any federal taxes.
Without growing the economy tax breaks do nothing but
make it feel like someone is looking down on you and
throwing you a bone.No thanks to this- we definately
need a change at the top.

[trooth]

TM, you are blinded by your emotions like most of the electorate. The biggest increase in the size of the federal gov't ever was achieved under Rep control from 2001 through 2006. The political lobby industry skyrocketed, defense spending surged, no-bid contracts became an acceptable standard, we got the department of homeland security - a massive bloated bureaucracy, huge increases in medicare spending (thanks to the Big Pharma lobby) and Wall Street which spun completely out of control, while forgetting how to manage risk. When the entire banking system reaches the brink of collapse, you know something is fucked up with financial regulation (can you spell 'Phil Gramm'?).


What did you expect to happen when the deficit spending trajectory had been set in concrete, and then the economy crashed and burned? Did you think it would heal itself with austerity measures? You 'Conservatives' have no clue how close we came to another Depression.

Obviously we need to get back on a track of debt reduction (as we were before W got elected), but it takes time. And it takes a combination of spending cuts and revenue increases. If you think it can be done only with spending cuts, you're nuts - just like the Tee party.

At least O'Bama wants to lower taxes for 98% of the population. He has been brutally consistent about this. The Reps would like to raise taxes on most of the population (by 'flattening' out the tax code) and they'd like to lower taxes for the top 2%. If there wasn't such extreme income inequality and such dire poverty in this country I would fully support them. But their policies are completely misguided when considered in any historical context of the past 100 years. The Reps are the party of the rich. Pure and simple. The only party who supports and defends the middle class is the Dems. I ain't a 'party guy', but I see things the way they are.

The prevailing wisdom during the W years was that deficits don't matter. I think your grand wizard Mr. Cheney stated that. Well of course they don't matter for the rich (or the elite). They only matter for the masses. If you think Romneycare or any other Rep solution is going to restore fiscal responsibility to this country, you are sadly mistaken. Your party has demonstrated that they are incapable of managing the economy, and they're not too slick at foreign policy either (e.g. Iraq 2003-2008). If the Reps in Congress would govern rather than obstruct, then the country would begin moving in the right direction. It is a pattern that whenever a Dem is in the WH, the Reps feel the need to spend 8 years trying to discredit and impeach the poor bastard. (Where is that birth certificate?) What a huge waste of time and resources.

You guys desperately want to occupy the WH, but you always seem to choose dummies as your candidate post Reagan/Bush 41. Except for JC (who was pathetic), the country has done fairly well under Dem presidents for the past 60 years.

You really want to see a 6 month debate of Romneycare versus O'bamacare? LMAO

[truthmon]

Trooth finally an arguement that has some merit-I applaud that.Again
I will state I am an independent and dont have a stake in either party.
I will say both Reagan and Clinton did alot of good for the people of
this country.Bush jr. didnt and Obamas policys are spiraling the country
toward total collapse.On every count the country is worse off than
when Bush left office.Hes worse than even Carter as he he governs
by his idolology-and would continue to do so if given 4 more years.
Things are so screwed up now-but I have faith in the American
people to find a candidate that would give us a better fate.
Face it Trooth neither your or my vote doesnt count if we
are not in a swing state-where this election will be decided.
I am optimistic because Obama is polling in the toilet in the
12 swing states.

[sscam2001]

If you are even considering voting for anyone other then Ron Paul, you are a moron in my book...

[ichi the killer]

Ron Paul? Please! You guys MUST want to lose.

[truthmon]

Hey Trooth enlighten me about those fine Dem presidents in the past 60 years.Carter-pathic (your description).JFK-beloved but unfortunately
killed early in his presidentcy.LBJ escalated our involvement in the Nam.
Caused unrest here over this unneccesary shameful action.Clinton
all and all not bad.Obama 3 years of failed policy.
So this line-up floats your boat?

[trooth]

It's all relative. Reagan and 41 were good. Nixon was bad. Ford was a temporary placeholder until we had another election. W was the worst.
Kennedy might have been the best of the 20th century if they hadn't killed him too soon. He inspired the nation and set us on a course to defeat communism and dominate the world (for a while). He was a real President, mistresses and all (the way it's supposed to be). Johnson did fuck up the War - no excuse there. But he did accomplish a lot domestically. Without Johnson there would be no Medicare and we would be 30 years behind in Race relations. Clinton - one of the best ever, despite your attempts to destroy his Presidency. And O'Bama - he definitely gets a bad rap from you guys. But it is too soon to tell how history will judge him. I'm telling you - elect a decent Congress and O'Bama has the potential to be a great President. Keep your Tee party morons in power, and you will hard-wire continued dysfunction in Washington.

The thing about O'Bama that drives you guys absolutely bonkers is the Healthcare legislation. This was a once in a century Bill that needed to get passed. Admittedly it is badly flawed - because of the process of passing controversial legislation, and because of a few corrupt Democratic Senators. But anybody with a brain knows that the law will be fixed and the stupid parts will be dialed back. These things take time. I won't comment on the Bill here because it would require an entirely separate thread. At least O'Bama had the ability, and the determination, to get it done - and early on in the cycle.

Don't forget, January 2009 was one of the worst times to move into the White House in the past 100 years. The fact that we did not slide into Depression and the economy is actually growing again 3 years later is rather impressive. After all, you guys said O'Bama would destroy the country, dismantle Capitalism and set us back to the Stone Age. That hasn't happened.

I'm not saying he's done everything right. He's made a lot of mistakes (they all do). But against Nixon, Ford, W, McCain or Romney - I'd take O'Bama hands down without blinking. You guys want to win the WH, then nominate a decent candidate for a change. Of course since the Reps cannot find one, their fallback strategy is to try to fuck up the economy (by trying to force a debt default, interfering with tax reduction legislation, reneging on agreements to address the debt crisis, etc...) so that the voters blame O'Bama and kick him out. That is a monumentally stupid strategy (can you hear that Senator McConnell?). It probably won't work, and if it did, is it worth destroying our fragile economy just to score a political victory? Pretty pathetic.

You guys cannot even control your own House. Boehner has been taken hostage by the Tee party gang. He is a pussy, not a leader. He makes deals with the WH and then gets slapped around by the Tee gang so he backs down. He makes a deal with the Senate over extending payroll tax cuts (which O'bama wants to do), then gets slapped around by the Tee gang and he reneges on the deal. Only when the party establishment calls him out and starts sharpening their knives does he finally stand up to the Tee gang.

So the Dems had one Dud (JC) and the Reps had two Duds (Nixon and W). I give the edge to the Dems since Eisenhower.

[trooth]

So the Dems had one Dud (JC) and the Reps had two Duds (Nixon and W). I give the edge to the Dems since Eisenhower.

Btw, JC did his damage over 4 years, while Nixon and W ruled for a total of 14 years. An important distinction.

[truthmon]

Trooth I think your blinded by party politics something that I think is
foolish-and I personally would not give up my privalige to decide for myself.Obama demonstrated his inability to lead-shouldnt get a second
term just because he plays politics all the time.Started with the Stimilus
in witch he stayed in the background while it was passed by his house
and super majority in the senate.Anybody following it knows they could
have spent half the money and got atleast twice the bang for the buck.
Then when this problem desparately needed attention he abandoned the
urgent needs to address the HC bill-that even with these super majorities
took a year to complete.Flawed no its a joke-most members of Congress
had no idea what was in the bill including Pelosi.Thankfully the Supreme
Court will decide its fate and I do expect it to be just a bad dream by the
summer.With half my friends and family dropping out of the work force
is hardly a reason to buy into Obamas cliam things are turning around
because these people no longer show in the unemployment stats.
The tea party started when W was still president.Crap like above
propelled them to be a force in the 2010 elections.How silly
to think they are the problem when they only exist because of poor
or non existant leadership.Comon Trooth take a real look at things-huh?

[truthmon]

My Cuz worked job 15 years and lost it when company shut down 2 years
ago.He doesnt show by stats in work force because he exhausted his 99
weeks of benefits.He still looks for a job everday-and had to move in with
his mom and sleep on coach to survive.
He would say to you Trooth that when you vote this year for who your
party told you that you try to remember the defination of insanity.Doing
the same thing over and over again and expect different results.
All Obama needs is an insanity factor of over 50 % and he is a shoe-in for
a second term..

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon brother. The seeds were sown for the economic collapse long before Obama was elected president. I am in the same boat with 99% of you guys. My job could be gone tomorrow. I live with that everday i go to work. Moral is lower than I have ever seen it at the place i work. they had a round of lay offs a couple months ago and it is rumored that round II is coming this month... It is a complex thing, the economy. If you read the news, some people are doing just fine. The stock market, despite the way things feel, is said to be making money. So if you are a rich mother fucker and have money to invest, you could be making money. Great! In the mean I am just hoping I don't get laid off. i could find a job i am sure. it just depends on how upside down I would have to turn my life to get this new job . Life goes on. So, who to blame?

[truthmon]

Ichi at this point there are too many to blame-and that doesnt do anyone
any good.I just am seeking the wisdom that I can vet a candidate that has the resolve and knowledge to turn around this sad situation.As of
today I still am in the undecided when it comes to this election.But I
surely wont vote for someone who already showed not capable.

[truthmon]

Ichi bro-Im hoping you keep your job-your a good guy.
Seen too much bad shit happening recently-enough dontcha think!!!

[trooth]

TM, for the record I am a registered independent. But given today's party choices I definitely think the Dems are better for the country at the federal level. At the State level it's a different story.

The Rep party today has lost its sanity. It is not your grandfather's Rep party. No longer the party of Lincoln. They have been hijacked by some crazies who are very right-wing, and many of whom would like to see a Christian theocracy placed in power. Ridiculously hypocritical given that they constantly talk about the Constitution. Where in the Constitution does it suggest that we are a Christian Nation?

You know, if the Tee party had their way, your relatives would be cut off from their extended unemployment benefits (it is Socialism to waste that money on those lazy bastards), and they would have no access to government subsidized health insurance (let them buy it from the private insurance companies - if they can afford it). Every normal country needs some sort of social safety net for its citizenry. True Christians understand this. Go ahead and vote for Ron Paul and see what the country will look like in a few years if he wins.

[ichi the killer]

thanks truthman. we may be on opposite sides of the fence but your are a decent guy as well, for a sex pervert monger anyway.:)

[ichi the killer]

back to business/attack. I was reading some of Ron Pauls stuff. Now, this is why he is suicide for the GOP: I agree with a lot of what he says. Therefore, that would make him unelectable by a majority of the usa voting population. I am extreme left wing.

Paul says or has said:

The evil Bushies were happy about 911, it gave them an excuse to go to war with Iraq, A war based on a lie. I concur.

The war on drugs is racist. Drugs should be legalized. I concur.

Prostitution should be legalized. Duh! I concur with that as well.

Paul would never win. I kind of like his views on the above things though.

[truthmon]

I like Ron Pauls ideas on some domestic issues but think his head is in
the clouds on most things concerning national security.Therefore he
could never be my guy-and I never considered him a viable candidate.
Trooth I agree on assessment in part at least, concerning the Rebublican party.
But on the other hand remember first debt ceiling standoff.First thing
out of Obamas mouth was he didnt think social security checks would be
sent out.I know what my reaction to this was-typical Obama bullshit
stuff!Remember in his agenda that was the first
thing that would go-he lost the last bit of credibility he had with me-phoney
bastard!!!So how did you feel about how he deals with probably the
most needy-on money they had paid into the system?This guy really
should resign-we shouldnt have to wait 11 months to vote him out.

[truthmon]

One more thing trooth ,nobody suggested ,either party to cut off
unemployment benefits.But concerning my relatives they are not
getting any help concerning HC needs.I guess they dont meet the
profile.This is scarry times for hard working non-minorties who find
them self in need.

[Lector]

TM, if you stopped only a few minutes to bang your anti Obama drum, you and your cousins would realize that all their problems are the fault of the Pubes policies since Regan. And for the record, no, he was not a great president at all. But better than Nix or W for sure. But Reagan started the redistribution of riches away from the middle class into the 1%, and blew up the deficit to kill social programs that once were called the way pubes say Obamacare like it's a bad word. The Pubes do not care if your family ends up on the street. Obama does. He has done everything he could against the highest odds to fight for the middle class. That is his electorate, bro. Pubes want him hanging high, even spread venom to contest his patriotism. With 4 more years and a Dem congress, he has a chance to be remembered as one of the greatest. Your info smells of extreme right wing radio noise, if you don't watch Faux news, maybe you're a ditto head? Hope not. Anyone in the 99% is delirious if they vote Pubes.

[truthmon]

Hey Leech you are cocsistant-not one fact right and you make accusasions with no basis.You are the cold sore on this thread.
Stick to what you know if there is such a thing with you.

[truthmon]

When a Leech doesnt relize Preidents like Reagan and Clinton put
sanity into a system that may allow us to weather storms like
now where we borrow 42 cents on every dollar spent shows just
how uninformed a person can be.Right Leech we dont have to
pay this borrowed money back but we have to take care of the
sorry asses who feel entitled to the product of everyone elses labor.
Yes Leech everyone else not just the 1%.

[Lector]

nothuthman, i'm just here hoping to help you find your wit. Lack of humor and insults don't carry much weight. Watch your speling tooh, maikes it ahrd tu read.
Fact is: Reagan borrowed and Clinton saved.
My point is, the last time deficits were not that much of a problem, the rich were paying their fair share, which is a whole lot more than they do now. Why would now be the standard? Even the Billionaires are begging to be taxed!
The other scandal is the multinational companies that are avoiding taxes by creating fake divisions in Ireland, the Bahamas... everyone does it, even the "good" ones, Apple and Google.
The budget deficit has to be resolved by additional income, there's no more to cut or we'll be a third world country. The rich and the Corporate profits are the elephants in the room. And don't say it's socialism, because they used to proudly pay their fair share! Since WW2! but Reagan and W emptied the coffers as they gave discounts to their friends.
The middle class? still paying, more, actually, in proportion. And less and less access to higher education, affordable housing, good jobs...
How come not one fat banker ended up in jail after ruining it for the whole world? Oh no, they deserved every hard penny they earned, those million $ bonuses from the bailout, say the Tea party losers. I just say: Bull! Hang 'em high!
Come join the 99% since you're one of them, the 1% are just laughing in your back when you drink their Kool-aid...

[ichi the killer]

Some people idolize R Reagan like he was some kind of great president. Most, if not all of the things that went well during Reagan's 2 terms as POTUS were the result of luck and chance. Not things that he actually was responsible for. For one, the economic expansion was the result of the "babyboomers" generation just hitting their prime earning years. The difference now is the "babyboomers" generation is old, grey and about to either die or retire. Remember the "Iran hostage" thing? The "November surprise?" When Reagan majically got the Iran hostages back. It turned out that R Reagan and other dirty dog Republican's were doing underhanded dealings backstage with the Iranian's to secure the hostages. Remember "Iran/contra?" and fall guy Ollie North? At the hearings R Reagan said he"could not recall." Maybe he really couldn't remember either. Turns out he had senile dementia through out most of his terms in office. Especially the second term.

R Reagan was the "teflon president." The press looked the other way while R Reagan doddered and rambled. A few years later the press crucified B Clinton for things that really did not matter shit. I really don't care if a fat girl sucked the presidents dick. Why is that important? Ask Kenneth Starr that one.

So, who was in charge? Who was responsible for things that went well, or not so well in the 80"s? Blind luck. That's who.

[truthmon]

Reagan ended the cold war that plagued several prior presidents.Example
the Cuban missile crisis that JFK handled well-but a scary time. That required a military build up by Reagan to avoid a military action.He inherited from JC an economic disaster that was being compared to
the great depression.Because he had sound policys he got bi-partisan
support to show significant healing in the economy within 2and 1/2
years.He added 1and1/4 trillion to national debt in 8 yrs.while maintaining
a budget of 18% of GDP.
This compares to W adding 5 trillion to natl debt in 8 years while maintaining a budget of 20% of GDP.
Now BO added 6 trillion to debt in 3 years and a budget of 25% of
GDP(how could you possibly not find cuts from this?).He lost ground
on every economic measure(Keynesian economics always fails).He said
if he didnt fix the problem in 3 years he didnt deserve a second term.
He said he could keep unemployment under 8%.He had no excuses
as he had a majority in both houses and could pass anything he
wanted.
These are the facts not the junk Leech throws at us.And Leech
wonders why I always talk to him in spelling errors.I give him the
respect he earns.

[trooth]

Reagan and his Posse invented 'Supply Side Economics' and experimented with it on the country. It did unleash a boom, but it took Clinton 8 years to restore fiscal sanity to the federal budget.

The real savior of the economic train wreck after Nixon & Carter was Paul Volcker who defeated the serious inflation we had.

It is also not widely known that Reagan raised taxes on the middle class - big time. The so-called payroll tax was Reagan's solution to avoid a complete budget catastrophe while lowering the taxes brackets for higher income earners.

Payroll taxes - which are phased out at some ridiculously low income level - are one of the main reasons the middle class has gotten squeezed so much during the past 25 years. When angry rich white men proclaim that the majority of the population pays no federal income tax, nothing could be further from the truth.

All normal countries have a progressive tax system to support a healthy middle class and provide opportunity for people to move up the ladder in society with their skills, knowlege and hard work. The 'conservatives' in this country like Forbes, Gringrich and many others would like to see all taxes as flat as possible - so they inflict maximum pain on the lower and middle classes, and minimum pain on the wealthy. This is a fact. The irony is that the right-wing Pols accuse the Dems of inciting 'Class Warfare' when the trooth is exactly the opposite. If they had their way, the share of the pie would shift dramatically more toward the top 1 or 2 %, with the trend continuing in that direction forever. That is the brand of democratic capitalism they want. The end result will look like Europe in the 17th century. The French launched a revolution over extreme wealth inequality. The key word is 'extreme'. The Conservatives see nothing wrong with society trending toward such an extreme. Indeed they believe that is the way things should be. After all, there is always the 'trickle down' theory to save the middle class.

[trooth]

Reagan ended the cold war that plagued several prior presidents.Example
the Cuban missile crisis that JFK handled well-but a scary time. That required a military build up by Reagan to avoid a military action.He inherited from JC an economic disaster that was being compared to
the great depression.Because he had sound policys he got bi-partisan
support to show significant healing in the economy within 2and 1/2
years.He added 1and1/4 trillion to national debt in 8 yrs.while maintaining
a budget of 18% of GDP.
This compares to W adding 5 trillion to natl debt in 8 years while maintaining a budget of 20% of GDP.
Now BO added 6 trillion to debt in 3 years and a budget of 25% of
GDP(how could you possibly not find cuts from this?).He lost ground
on every economic measure(Keynesian economics always fails).

TM, dude, are you typing from your phone?
The demographics were all different in those years. Lots of people paying into soc security, not so many collecting. Today it's the opposite.
And the Gipper got bipartisan support because the Dems were not sworn to any pledges from political cronies and lobbyists. They respected Reagan, and they governed, which is what they get paid to do. Today it is the opposite. The Reps just play politics with every important issue, no matter how much damage they incur for the rest of us. 95% of you probably agree. 5% approval rating for Congress today. ~ OB cannot lose if the Congress approval rating stays in single digits through Nov.

[truthmon]

Yes traveling all the time.The thing I hear all the time is the surprise
of having no leadership in the WH.It is the main theme echoed as
to why our situation seems hopeless.A good barometer to a sucessful
Presidentcy is the standard of living for all the people.It increased under
Reagan and Clinton.Clinton had the less challenging years.Yes the congress has an all time low approval rating.As far as Presidents go
so does BO.He should be toast.Congressmen from both the house and
senate, both partys, many will not get re-elected.You will continue
to see more announcing they wont even run.OB can not run on a record
because his policys have proved useless and widely unpoplar.He will
spend a record billion on negative stuff.If this did allow him to sqeek out
a victory he would find himself with no political capitol.Not much hope then to turn this sorry situation around.The beauty of this country
is we all can vote in secret and then openly prosper or suffer the outcome.The downside for me is someone like the Leech spewing
his silly jiberish.

[truthmon]

Trooth and for the record lets get the real truth out to the folks.What candidate if any is offering a flat tax plan without a choise to file
with the present tax code.Because if the answer is nobody then all this
means is it doesnt raise taxes on anybody just gives the opportunity to
pay less or seek convenience.The Dems are generally credited with
the mess we now have of a tax code-creating all those loopholes.Way
to go Dems you really got our backs.

[ichi the killer]

The USA did not win the "cold war." Bin Laden and the mujahadeen in Aphganistan did it by giving USSR a war of attrition that broke the Russkies backs economically. The Russians collapsed from the weight of their "wars of empire" much the way the USA is doing now. We did not learn. History repeats itself again and again. Obama is doing the smart thing: Declare victory and pull out ASAP. Who's idea was it to go there again? W. That's who. What an epic mistake that was. Invading Iraq. What folly. Now Iran is going ape shit crazy with no one to stop them. Saddam had those Iranian bastards in check. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Machiavelli, "The Prince." Too bad W did not read Machiavelli.

[Lector]

Trooth speaks the truth!
May I just add for the benefit of our childish traveler that Newsweek has the best editorial this week explaining how the GOP has progressively turned to the far right since Nixon, and that they are being held hostage to extremist policies and nonsensical ideology. On the other hand, we have a real leader in the WH. He has passed the most amount of progressive legislation of any president in a century. And if you've drunk the kool-aid and diss Obama's health care plan.... sorry, too late, just wear your Nikes and hop on the comet.
please read the news, from all sides, and don't please don't ever listen to the loonies in rightist talk radio. Viva NPR!

[truthmon]

Ichi the Russians were paying for their involvment in Afganistan by
taking from the land.They were suffering from the inevitable ill effects
of a state run government and the disspirited people who were depending
on their government for about everything.Reagan seized this opportunity
to further the unrest-and like all previous socialist/communist countries
it crashed and burned.It has somewhat righted its ship by more open
and free commerse.China is taking a similiar path.But Europe went the
dependancy route and in front of the worlds eyes is now paying
the price.So BO by his policys is moving toward the European model.
We need to change coarse and quickly.BO is not the man that will
do this.What was the point of the latest post by the Leech?

[Lector]

notruthman, is your sense of humor buried that deeply into your starfish?
Remember Reagan funded the Taliban...
This discussion is not about being dependent of big government, that fake issue is extreme right propaganda. Remember your GOP history: Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency, Goldwater supported gay rights, Reagan signed the largest tax increases in history at the time as governor and as president and signed a law for abortion rights. Today, to get nominated, each gop hopeful has to be more extremist than Joe McCarthy himself! Shame on them for losing any sense of decency.
Romney is not the CEO he lies to be. His only job was dismantling companies as fast as he could or merge them and lay off workers to make the quickest buck. No job creator, no leader in my book.
Coming back to the recurring theme you've been reading on this board from mongers that just wish to enlighten you and free you from the 1% spell you seem to be in: Government programs are your friend, the 99%. They are there to protect you from assholes that would line their pockets and destroy your air, your pensions, your health plans, push their religious beliefs down your throat and force your raped daughter to have her baby. Hmm, sounds a little like Afghanistan...

[truthmon]

Well Leech you probably read all that in the dying publication Newsweek found
at your doctor or dentist office. Or did you just made up this fantasy to make
your self feel important.Those government programs you love so is that
where you get your handouts or is it like Amtrack an hour late and still
waiting.Surprise my dependant friend most people in this country
dont look at the government as mommy like you do.Your facts are
wrong and its below me to expect the government(tax payers)to
take care of me when I can do that myself.Leech get a spine.

[trooth]

notruthman, ...Remember Reagan funded the Taliban...
Remember your GOP history: Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency, Goldwater supported gay rights, Reagan signed the largest tax increases in history at the time as governor and as president and signed a law for abortion rights...

TM, which facts are wrong? You lost the argument. Who do you want to 'save' the country? Rick Santorum? He's just another Washington insider like Gringrich. And he can't separate his religion from his politics. Face it, the Republican party has lost its purpose. They cling to the fringe rather than focus on the middle class.

The number 9 is a telling number in U.S. politics. Herman Cain proposed a flat 9-9-9, regressive tax code which would further re-distribute wealth to the top. The Reps have adopted the position that the interests of 1% of the population are more important than the interests of the other 99%. And reason they want to so desperately control the WH is so they can fill as many of the 9 Supreme Court member slots with Far right judges. With added emphasis on 'Far'.

If you're the wealthiest 1 or 2 or 3%, then I totally get it when you vote for them. But if you're not, then I don't get it. Rather, you don't get it. That is because you are manipulated (often brainwashed) by right wing talk radio to support their agenda. They spend money to persuade you to vote against your self interests. That is why Rush Limbaugh exists. It's all driven by money...

[truthmon]

Just about everything he tries to pass off as revelent.Being a true independent I can readily see that there are some good
and many more slimey politicians in both partys. The Leech tells you
he is hardcore progressive-entitlement driven.Seems to have no
regard for individual incentive and it also appears he wouldnt mind
a few elite regulating the country to a grinding halt.This thinking
of his doesnt represent the 99%.Its about 20% of the radical loons.
Reread his posts hes a nut job.He may want to give away freedoms
for a few handouts that can be cut back or eliminated at the
discretion of the elite government.Well the majority of this country
isnt buying his brand of existence.

[truthmon]

Trooth maybe the Leech can start a thread about Barry Goldwater and
gay rights.His Karl Marx quotes woulds fit there much better than here.

[trooth]

The majority of the country voted for OB in 2008 and they knew exactly what he stood for and exactly what his intentions were. It turned out, after the healthcare legislation, he moved decidedly toward the center due to political realities.

In modern society, too little regulation is just as dangerous as too much regulation. It is pointless to argue which is worse. We need good regulation so society and the economy can function efficiently while protecting things from getting screwed up. It was too little regulation that enabled the finacial collapse of 2008. Remember Wall Street bundled and sold all that toxic debt, declaring it AAA (knowing it was junk), and bet against it to goose their profits. Well that episode ended well.

The Reps have committed blasphemy en masse by signing a sacrilegious twisted pledge written by a dude named Grover who is a corrupt lobbyist with a shady background. This should be illegal. It has rendered the party incapable of governing and is one of the main sources of Washington gridlock today. The Reps always talk about constitutional amendments to legislate Christianity into our constitution. Well there should be a constitutional amendment making it illegal for any elected official to sign any pledge other than the pledge to serve, defend and protect our country and constitution.

In this country we have a party that is center-left and a party that is center-right. That is normal and healthy. The problem with the center-right party is that they have evolved to a party which is extreme right. When you are extreme right, obviously everybody who is center-left is going to appear as 'far left (communist) loons' in your eyes. You need to pull your head out of the sand and stop listening to all that talk radio in order to get a more balanced perspective of reality. I've listened to talk radio in the past. I know how addictive and influential it is.

Ask every Rep candidate except Ron Paul if they want to ratchet up our military involvement and spending around the world, dismantle most government regulation of our economy, and slash and burn huge swaths of the social safety net which has been established, they will all shout 'affirmative'. Well we saw how well 2/3 of that agenda played out under Bush. If they get a real right wing leader this time (like Gringrich) they will have the triple crown and destroy our society much worse.

Obviously the Dems include everybody from the center to the far left of the spectrum. Just like the Reps include everybody from the center to the far right. The difference is that the Dems are controlled by the center-left crowd, while the Reps have sold out to the far right crowd.

Most of the attacks against OB have been based on fear and ignorance. He's a commie, he's a black (although in closed door meetings they use a different word), he's a radical alien born in Africa, he's muslim, he wants to kill all your unborn babies, he'll confiscate all your guns, he wants to nationalize all of our industries, he's in bed with Chavez, Ahmedinejad, etc....

Can you spell 'fear mongering' or 'racism'?

By the way, if the Feds had not saved the American auto industry, how many more hundreds of thousands of jobs - rather millions - would have disappeared in 2009? If OB had lost the election, probably all of them (and it's not just jobs in the auto plants). The ripple effect on the economy would have been disastrous. We're goddam lucky that didn't happen.

[ichi the killer]

Trooth, you make a very good argument. Truthmon will not be convinced though. He is just as brain washed as? I hate it when right wing repubs call themselves "independant." Have some balls and fly your flag high. That is how I live. If a guy is a right winger, he should just say it. They should not color themselves independant. Tigers wear their stripes and elephants are fat. They don't hide it.

[truthmon]

Trooth why must I be listening to some radio thing?Ichi why must
I be a rep?Trooth says he is an independent what do you think
he is Ichi?
It is hard to miss the damage BO did in a short time.The WSJ states
his performance is weak and cite he has the worse ever public ratings
for the first 3 years of a presidentcy.It is common knowledge he can not
run on his record and will run a negative campaign.Actually he has been
in that mode for months now.
So whats the deal hes such a shit president that your best tactic is
to gang up on me?Get out a bit and you find that there are tons of
people turned off by BOs performance and want him out.It is getting harder
to find a supporter of his anymore-except the couple of you on this board.

[Lector]

if i believed in god i'd pray for nothruthman's recovery, but then I don't.
me bad

[truthmon]

Now its official Leech-The three stooges.Double duty for you as you
also fill the role of village idiot...

[trooth]

Now its official Leech-The three stooges.Double duty for you as you
also fill the role of village idiot...

Dude, you have no counterparts in here. Where are your friends who also hate OB? See if checkinthedark is around. He'll give you some company in here. I'd be a lot more worried if I was running for re-election in Congress. OB may have made some big mistakes, but I see an easy victory for him ahead. If your party could find a better candidate then OB, I'd vote for him - Maybe. I worry about the goddam Supreme Court. That keeps me motivated to avoid Reps (especially slippery types like Romney and Gringrich) when I go into the voting booth. But Congress is at historic lows in approval. That will be the interesting thing to watch. Which incumbents will get the boot.

[ichi the killer]

Yeah, all we need is a right wing supreme court nominee and good by seperation of church and state. I am a Christian but i sure don't want to live in some right wing theocracy with state mandated religion. People should have the right to worship or not to worship the God they see fit. Perry would shove Christianity down everyones throat "school prayer etc," I would be ashamed to be afiliated to such a backwards party as the Republican party. Maybe that's is why all the repubs say they are 'independants." Wear your colors on your sleeve. Represent, don't sneak around.

[truthmon]

This thread got really sick-you can tell by the BS level of the lefties.Reality has to set in because the country is now on the edge thanks to BO.The election is all about the economy and will be settled
in the swing states on this issue.Research that and atleast you will come
away with hope for America as a first rate country.Forget social issues at this time BO made sure there isnt time for that in this sorry state he allowed this country sink to.Now Im sorry Leech even you might have
to shit or get off the pot-the country cant afford to carry you any longer.

[ichi the killer]

That makes sense. Put the Party of George W. Bush back in charge so they can finnish what they started. Make the top 1% even richer and the 99% can be destitiute paupers.

Marie Antoinette is credited with saying "let them eat cake." She said this when she was told the French population had no bread to eat, they were starving.

"Let them eat cake" means the 1% like "Marie Antoinette" have no understanding of what it is like to be poor/middle class. It also shows that the 1% rich people care even less than they understand about the plight of regular people "the 99%" Antionette was credited with saying this right before the French revolution. Marie Anoinette later had her head cut off in the guiloitine by the revolutionaries. "Viva la revolucion!"

[truthmon]

Ichi there is no such thing as 2 groups in America-the 1% and 99%.
Only Ocupy could come up with something that corney.I dont know
if you heard but Bush isnt running in 2012.If clinton was in office
now things would be a far sight better than screw up BO.All dems
are not the same.That goes for repubs also.

[trooth]

Actually the economy is in substantially better condition than it was in January 2009. As usual the Rep crowd can't get the facts straight. Ewps - did I say crowd?

[trooth]

Here's food for thought. The stock market - which is the ultimate scorecard for free market thinkers and capitalists - has done significantly better, overall, under Dem Presidents during the past 60 years.

DJIA returns:

Eisenhower 120% (8 yrs)
Kennedy 16% (3 yrs)
Johnson 28% (5 yrs)
Nixon -17% (6 yrs)
Ford 25% (2 yrs)
Carter 0% (4 yrs)
Reagan 131% (8 yrs)
Bush 41 45% (4 yrs)
Clinton 225% (8 yrs)
Bush 43 -22% (8 yrs)
O'Bama 50% (3 yrs)


Numbers don't lie. In the past 30 years (since Reagan), the Dow returned Double the amount under Dem Presidents - in Half the amount of time! Look at the numbers. In fact, if you project the next 5 years under an O'Bama presidency, it is likely the Dow will have about the same total percentage rise under 8 years of O'Bama as it did under 8 years of Reagan.

Anyone want to take this bet?

[Lector]

I never complain while paying my taxes: the more I pay, the more i've made. simple! That system works well until you hit the really top part of the scale, see the 1% just don't like to pay their fair share (1970s levels).
since u asked so nicely, notruthman, i'm doing quite well, sorry about that. I even give some back, for political issues or philanthropy, even save a few bills for those for who the streets are their home. I'd keep some for you, no bad feelings, if you'd find yourself there after erring in support of those who just want to screw you.

[truthmon]

I dont think the stock market is really a fair barometor of the economy
or how the average person is doing.It is a playground for the 1% who prosper the
most.The average person wants a robust job market with opportunities.What we have now is a paired down work force in where big business can easily keep cutting
back on benefits and salaries.When BO could have made a big impact on this the 2
years the dems were controlling all 3 branches of govt he was playing politics.Now
he raised a record 1 billion for re-election yet his small grass route donations are way
down.Think maybe the money is coming from those demonized 1%?I do!!!
So using this BO play book The Leech has resurficed as the self annointed Santa Claus.All too funny.

[ichi the killer]

Ichi there is no such thing as 2 groups in America-the 1% and 99%.
Only Ocupy could come up with something that corney.I dont know
if you heard but Bush isnt running in 2012.If clinton was in office
now things would be a far sight better than screw up BO.All dems
are not the same.That goes for repubs also.

What do you mean there is no 1% and no 99%? Troothman, that is simple math and statistics of wealth possession in America. Take 100% of people with money in america, average the amount of money they have. Take the top 1% average and "bingo" the "top 1%." Next, subtract 1% from 100% and remains is "the 99%." It is very easy to look this stuff up on the internet Troothman. The top 1% rich people in America control 42% of the capital wealth in America. That is from more than one source I looked up on Yahoo a minute ago. My computer even has a calculator. Yep. 100%-1%=99%. Simple.

Wealth = power. When 1% of the people have 42% of the wealth/power, that my friend, is not democracy. That is an oligarchy. The population has been largely dummed down to accept their lot in life. "Oh well, I am poor and rich people are rich. That's just the way it is. Hey, if I work real hard I could get rich to." That last bit is largely a myth. I am too bored to quote all the stuff I looked up on internet about this. I am telling, you there is a vast wealth of stuff you can read on the topic, from more than one source. Irrefutable hard boring statistics from sources like the "Wall Street Journel," "Forbes Magazine." Not exactly bastions of the underclass.

Most of the top1% were born that way. Rich that is. In fact, something like 65% of the rich were born into money. Many got even richer later on in life "money is power.' Life is a whole lot more "fair" in America if you were born into wealth. More opportunity if you were born into the elite class.

Forbes magazine is quoted as saying about GW Bush. "Bush was born on 3rd base and he thought he hit a triple." Many people are "coopted" to believe in this system. Like "poor white trash Republicans." Hate welfare mothers driving cadillacs to buy "ripple wine" with their food stamps. Stop the immigrants etc. etc. etc. Duped into believing the Republican party serves their best interest. It is in the elites best interest to try to keep the masses "believing." If you believe in the system you will not revolt. Kind of like "the wizard" in "Wizard of Oz." Dont' look behind that curtain. One has to take an interest to look on the internet about things like "the 1%" and "the 99%." If you don't want to know, no one can teach you. You have to look yourself. That takes an intersted mind. Just keep listening to "Hannity and Colmes."

Remember "trickle down economics." 'A rising tide floats all boats." Republican nonsense. Just keep believing.

More like "Trickle down" where the top 1% stand on their ivory towers and piss down on the 99% heads.:) "Hey it's raining."

[truthmon]

Itci I read newspapers daily as well as spend some time on the internet.
More important I can deciffer what I read and keep my eyes open
to what I see.I think it is silly to accept another persons
lableing of things such as political partys etc.I am a realalist and
accept that 80% of Americans cant do this(40% Dems 40% Repubs).
I look out in my neighborhood and see some people can afford reg vacations-some cant.Some can beautify their homes others cant.
Same goes to paying their morgage.The list goes on and on.None
of my neighbors are starving but I know it exists in America.Now all these
people fit neatly into a 99% package?I think not.
BO has shown us by his poor performance he can not do the job.
I think he is personable but as a President it is time for him
to go.This is a crisis and we need someone who can deal with it and
now!As an independent I have no say in the primaries.But
who ever emerges looks to be better equiped then what
we are strattled with now.

[trooth]

TM, 'whoever emerges' is not a promising scenario. You think we would have been better off with that old loon McCain and his girlfriend Sarah Pailin? Give me a break.

Or how about Rick Santorum or Rick Perry? Or perhaps Ron Paul or Mr. Newt? Electing a President is serious business. Our country cannot afford any more mistakes like Nixon or W (or Carter for that matter). Here's an interesting article just posted online by Thomas Ferguson, Professor of Political Science at the University of Massachusetts. It is especially useful for you 'Independents' and 'closet Talk Radio listeners' to read:


The Devil and Rick Santorum: Dilemmas of a Holy Owned Subsidiary
By Thomas Ferguson, AlterNet
Posted on January 6, 2012

Election night in Iowa was a heavenly moment for Rick Santorum. As he marveled over the late breaking tidal wave of support that in just weeks had swept him from nowhere into a virtual tie with Mitt Romney for first place in the state’s Republican caucuses, the former Pennsylvania Senator gushed to supporters about the secret of his campaign’s success: “I’ve survived the challenges so far by the daily grace that comes from God. . . . I offer a public thanks to God.’’

But it was not God who saved Rick Santorum. He survived Iowa rather like a blind mole rat might someday outlive a nuclear exchange – by simply burrowing underground while Romney’s Super Pac incinerated Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry, and while Perry tried to demolish Ron Paul, whom he considered a more dangerous rival. In a state where 60% of those attending the 2008 GOP caucuses described themselves as “born again” or evangelicals, Santorum was the only ultra-conservative left for resigned evangelical leaders to swing behind.

Now, as the wall of Super Money comes down on him like a ton of gold bricks, Santorum is likely fated, like Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, and Perry himself, to flame out after a brief moment of glory and go back to working with the energy and health care enterprises that helped make him a millionaire after leaving the Senate.

But this leaves a larger question: Why does this curious “shooting star” pattern of flare ups and flame outs distinguish the quest of hopefuls for the 2012 GOP presidential nomination? The answer lies in the party’s tricky long-term strategy to steer ordinary voters into focusing on wedge issues rather than the economic policies. The party establishment wants Romney, but its voters have been so thoroughly trained to focus on gays and abortion that they cannot sit still behind a candidate who concentrates on business and economic growth.

A Party Built for the 1 Percent

Beginning in the Nixon era, and then with ever greater determination and force after Reagan, GOP leaders have carefully built out a very special party structure. But at what should by all rights be a moment of easy triumph, thanks to the combination of the Great Recession and the Obama administration’s repeated economic policy blunders, the GOP is on the verge of chaos. The carefully elaborated structure of primaries, group appeals, and elaborately layered leadership structures is coming apart. Republican leaders now find themselves superlatively prepared to fight exactly the wrong war.

Their dilemma is easy to understand, if one tears oneself away from media talking heads and the endless election chatter that now fills the US press. As perhaps most painstakingly documented by Larry Bartels, in his 'Unequal Democracy,' Republican policies are stunningly orientated toward making the richest Americans richer and they have consistently done exactly that, by comparison with Democratic regimes.

This is not to say the Democrats do not also cater to segments of the rich – Bartels, like nearly everyone else writing about American politics, jumped too quickly to the conclusion that the partisan differences he detected followed immediately from the direct influence of mass constituencies rather than the choices different blocs of investors made as they appealed to different segments of the electorate while competing to control the parties. But as far as it goes, his point is true and important.

To summarize and retranslate into the language of my investment theory of political parties: Republicans historically secure the incomes of upper income Americans, whatever else they do. By contrast, Democrats typically compete by offering something – and these days, not much at all – to more of the 99%, even as they go whole hog for financial deregulation amid a raft of money from Vampire Squids, telecom monopolists, and other dark forces.

Republican leaders from Nixon, through Reagan, Gingrich, and the Bushes all understood their situation. They knew that to win consistently, they needed to do two things. First, they had to discourage as many poorer Americans from voting as possible. A succession of Republican administrations, sometimes abetted by conservative Democrats, have worked overtime at this. Once centered on punitive registration requirements, such efforts nowadays focus more on state measures to curtail early voting and, especially, add demands for photo ids.

No less important were the implications for GOP campaigns and political rhetoric. Once GOP leaders got past bromides about encouraging economic growth, to have any chance of appealing to the normal Americans their policies were first to squeeze, and over a generation, to impoverish, the party needed to change the subject from economics when campaigning. Fast.

Wedge Issues: the Weapon That Backfired

Thus it was that Republican leaders tried out one wedge issue after another, looking for anything that would stick. Nixon, Helms, and nearly the whole party played the race card for a long time; some still do. In the eighties, conservative Republicans built alliances with evangelicals and attacked gays. Many also attacked immigrants, while, of course, virtually everyone talked up defense, national security, and guns 24/7. After 9/11, with much help from Fox News and the other networks, they kept Americans on high alert for low reasons, to the point that Republicans in Oklahoma and other states sometimes run against the threat of Islamic law with a straight face. The party also looked with benign neglect at the rise of a libertarian right, though Ron Paul’s current challenge is a bit more than the party establishment, which lives and dies by the Federal Reserve and the Department of Defense, bargained for.

This brings us to the conflicts that are now chewing up the GOP. Most Americans, if they think about electorates at all, probably think of the American voting universe as a natural fact, akin to the tides or the moon. But as Walter Dean Burnham and I have never stopped emphasizing, that is not true. Electorates are like Japanese gardens. They have to be cultivated over long periods if they are to flourish. A host of rules, institutional practices, and careful appeals mobilize some blocs and demobilize others, including decisions about where to spend money to encourage turnout or make sure enough voting machines are available.

In 2012, history has dealt the GOP a hand it hadn’t counted on. The Democrats should be hopelessly vulnerable on the economy just now. The Obama administration’s failure to stimulate the economy sufficiently and address the mortgage problem, along with its single-minded focus on rescuing the financial sector, has left a bitter taste in the mouths of many Americans on both the left and the right. The opportunity for the Republicans is so huge that that the GOP establishment can almost taste it. As Haley Barbour, a former chair of the Republican National Committee who is also one of the most closely connected of all Republican leaders to big business observed recently, “If the 2012 election is about President Obama’s policies and the negative results of those policies, he won’t be reelected; so if I were campaigning, I’d talk about how his policies have made economic growth and job creation harder.”

So the party establishment rallied quickly behind Mitt Romney, though he is the first choice of comparatively few and mistrusted still by many.

The establishment’s problem, however, is that the electorate it so laboriously built over the last generation still has all those wedge issues on their minds. This doesn’t mean they don’t think also about economic issues – the Iowa polls, for example, show plainly that they do. But many GOP voters are in the party now because of the earlier recruiting efforts and habits that reflected their other deep interests. They aren’t going away. Nor are they going to stop caring about those issues, whether the GOP establishment likes it or not.

So the Republican leaders have a problem. A huge percentage – in Iowa it was three quarters – of the electorate that it presides over doesn’t want to follow its lead. In 1953, after riots broke out in the self-styled worker’s paradise of East Germany, Bertolt Brecht famously suggested that the government should dissolve the people and go find another one. That prospect is not open to the GOP establishment. It will need them in the general election, especially if the economy were to improve. So all it can do right now is to unroll its mighty bankroll and bulldoze through its opponents, hoping that none of those being squashed defects to some third party.

But it might just take divine intervention to make this strategy work.



Thomas Ferguson is Professor of Political Science at the University of Massachusetts, Boston and the author of 'Golden Rule: The Investment Theory of Party Competition and the Logic of Money-Driven Political Systems' (University of Chicago Press).

© 2012 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/153676/

[truthmon]

Good article.It clearly states what I been saying Obamas policys failed
big time.I see OB is campaining steadily in the swing states to double
down on this same colossal failed policy-adding more debt to a very critical
problem.None of us ever want to think about it but it will have to be
paid back -that coming with alot of pain.First and rapidly approaching
the interest of this debt is eating up more of the budget.
He pointed out shortfalls of the repubs candidates.Some truth-alot
of flaws with these candidats.But they all have the potential to make this a better situation
than what BO is capable of doing.I cant find the logic in saying everybody
in a party has lost their way-so all is hopeless.
Hopefully the less flawed of this group wins the nomination-then wins
the election with a clear mandate by the people on a tight leash.
I dont think as a people we can prudently do anything else unless
the BO steps down and we get a better option.We both know Trooth that
wont happen.

[trooth]

TM, you missed the point of the article. Rep Presidents have been, and will continue to be worse for our economy than Dem presidents. That is because their philosophy fails time and time again. The only way to have a continuously stable and improving economy is to promote policies that strengthen the 'middle class' or whatever name you want to give to the majority of the public, and to restore upward mobility as a realistic possibility for people at the bottom and in the middle. Just look at history. Any government in history which oppressed their population eventually crashed and burned. It makes no difference whether it was communist, fascist, or any other defective ideology. America without a strong and secure middle class is doomed to fail. The Reps have had one successful President since Eisenhower. The last time they controlled the WH, the country entered a period of accelerated decline. They have to earn the trust of the public if they want Executive power again. A good start would be for the Reps in Congress to start acting like legitimate leaders and govern responsibly like they were elected to do. Until that happens, they have no credibility in my book. Single digit approval ratings for Congress. They are obstructionists willing to gamble with our country for their own personal objectives. The Rep party is in complete disarray. They may keep the House, and may even squeek out a victory in the Senate, but they won't get the grand prize they so desperately seek. Most Americans see through the Rep BS. They ARE truly the party of the Elite.

[ichi the killer]

Trooth brings an interesting point to the table here. The fact that the Republican/Fox News Network/ political spin machine pander to the lowest common denominator to rally the right wing Republican voters to get the vote out on little 'fringe" wedge type issues. Historically, the Republicans have been doing this for a long time, like 20/30 years. Aka gay marriage. Who cares. Abortion? Whatever. Managed care death squads? Really? Gays in the military? Whatever.

Remember R Reagans "Welfare Queens driving welfare cadillacs." He coined this phrase in his 1976 failed presidential run. Later on when Reagan was president he declared war on the "Welfare Queens" by gutting the funding of social services while giving huge tax breaks to the rich "more deserving" citizens.

Remember "Willy Horton" the black bogey man trotted out by G H Bush against Ducakis in election year 1988.

And recent history: who can forget "Swift boats for truth" from GW Bush against Kerry 2004? What ever distracts and gets out the vote. None of those things mattered in the long haul though. Only mattered because it got the voting idiots out to vote against their own self interests and vote for Republicans. I hate anything on Fox now. That chanel makes me want to puke everytime I walk throught the lounge at work and that shit is on.

And what about the idiots who rise to prominence/infamy as Republican candidates and even presidents? Sarah Palin? G W Bush? R Reagan? Herman Cain? Rick Perry? What a fucking group of fools. At the New Hampshire Repub debate Perry suggested the USA should go back to Iraq to finish the business there. WTF? Is he serious? Are those really the best candidates the right wing could come up with.

[truthmon]

You guys are definatatly missing something.BO called for a 1 year extention of payroll taxes.The house pass a bill with a 1 yr extention.
Reid didnt like it and he wouldnt even negotiate a compromise.Instead
he got the Senate to pass a 2 month extention and left town.Then BO
attacks the repubs over this.Econmists say this cannot be handled
well by business as no one is set up on 2 month cycles.Some say this
is bad politics.I say this is the same shit this administration has been
doing for 3 years now.To me it appears they think the American people
are the fools.I dont believe they are and an alternative will be found.

[trooth]

Dude, your responses are getting lamer and sillier. The Reps in Congress, and not OB, are the problem with the federal gov't. Why can't you bring some of your Buddies in here to join the battle. You really need a break.

There is only one candidate in the Rep nomination race who is potentially good Presidential material ~ and the Rep party is too stoopid to choose him.

I was going to point this out much sooner, but I decided to wait until the race was essentially wrapped up, so I wouldn't tip you guys off in time.

[Lector]

agree, but he still has religion issues. He's the only one that hasn't been chosen as Flavor of the Month.
suggesting we re-set nothruthman, i think his circuits are crossed.

[truthmon]

Dude you arent an independent, you avoid anything that doesnt fit into
the narrow minded path your on.
But I aint nobodys asswipe, I am an independent and cant vote in a
primary.I have no idea who you think you would tip off and why you
feel you know the only good candidate.I was wondering what kind
of fool could continue to support BO after his comical tenure.I voted
for him last time and shortly after had buyers remorse.Now I know how
big of an idiot you are to think that guy deserves reelection.I wish
they counted votes by IQ level.That way the idiots that would vote
for BO again would hardly count.Not a good thought amongst the lot of you-total waste of my time and for anyone else.Open up your mind and
you will be happier dudes.I enjoy talking politics with informed individuals.
Not finding that with you guys.

[trooth]

Mr. TM, I will lower myself to your level for a moment, so I can ask you a question: When was the last time you voted for a President and did Not have buyers remorse shortly thereafter?

[ichi the killer]

Regarding: Poor white Replicans. Why do they vote republican? that is a good question and hard to explain. i will try.

Prior to the 1960's the southern united states [poor rural] was largely and consistantly democrat. then came the civil rights movment. The south resented that {poor white men losing their importance] The Democrats championed for equal opportunity, equal hiring, voting rights. the poor white voters said "hell with equal opportunity, we don't need that." The republican went to the south and spoke of "state rights" [code for segregation.] The south [redneck] has voted Republican consistantly since the late 70's.

So why would a poor white person [who could very easily find themselves unemployed] vote for a party that does not have their best interest in mind? Recall that the republican party wants to end all social programs such as: Universal health care, unemployment benefits, food stamps. the reason why a poor white person would vote republican? 1. Because he [or she] is STUPID. 2. Pride. " I am white. I don't need government assistance, I can pull myself up by my bootstraps." The Republicans largely gave up on the black and hispanic vote. Thus all the Anti-illegal immigration stuff from the GOP.

I know some of these people at work actually. Poor white nurses. They are 1 check above the gutter and still they vote republican. They have been duped.

Part of it is anti intellectualism. [like I said, this is complex to explain] Many Democrats are not poor. Just look at Hollywood and Santa Monica. Many democrats in those area codes. The republican spin machine has duped the poor whites by spinning themselves as 'Hey we are just like you" that is why they have candidates like Sarah Palin, GW Bush, R Reagan. Folksy people that no one would acuse of being an intellectual. On the contrary, those people are very below average intellects in my honest opinion. The Republican party largely gave up on the black vote and the hispanic vote. That is one reason why the Republican party is doomed. The hispanics fuck like rabbits and they will out number whites in the USA soon. The United States is more culturally diverse than it was in the 60's. The Republicans largely run on "lets make america like it was 30 years ago." Sorry,The past is dead, "it's a God given fact that you can't go back no you can't go back." Shrivel up Devo.

Granted: The republican party is mainly concerned with making the richist 1% people richer. the Democrat party is concerned with things like "universal health care." and social safety nets. Who has a future? white people who vote "values" instead of their own self interests are soon going to be a minority. "Guns and bibles." Yeah baby. Burn baby burn!

PS. Truthman, you should pm some of your allies to come here to help you out here. We got you surounded like Sitting Bull did to Custer. Custer cried when they scalped him.

[truthmon]

Ichi I wont deal any longer with you asswipes.Your guy is a disaster so
they got a legion of you idiots spewing something that is pure nonsence.
Its laughable that you mentioned someone elses intelligence.Tring to build up BO by talking mostly BS about an entire political party is not only
stupid but immature.And Obamacare is a disgrace according to the
several drs. I spoke to about it.You say you work with many doctors.
You wouldnt have the guts or honesty to tell what their reaction is
to that flawed bill.So spare us the bs please.And get other people
involved with the crap you offer as a debate on this presidential
election aint going to happen.No one should have to debate with asswipes.
I think it could be interesting to debate the ass that you guys wipe
and gives you direction.Arange that and you got a deal-but you
cant do it because your the fire wall to block discussions about
failed policys and not-a-clue remedies.

[truthmon]

Indisputable facts on how Obama is trying to humble 98% of population:
1.Economy-he inherited a 7.6% unemployment-viewed as fairly accurate.
Each month of BO presidentcy figgure higher.True figgure at this time is 15.2% because some had to take part time jobs and record number dropped out of stats as benefits ran out and trying to live on small savings or early SS.
2.Job killing by regs.Dodd/Frank good example.Designed to make small
banks and credit unions uncompetitive.As big banks no longer lend much
we are having a less competitive market place.
3.Govt/Fed actions.Supports printing of money and artificial low interest
rates.Inevitable middle-class high inflation will come of this and in
mean time a person cannot make a buck on savings.
4.Unsustainable debt-now at 16 trillion-equal to entire annual GNP.Adds
1.2 trillion to it every year.Econmists say 5-8 years from now the interest
on this debt will equal our entire annual budget.That means tax everyone
to death. continued......

[truthmon]

5.Energy policy centers around Solyndra type companies and the sorryass Chevy Volt.Gas under his presidentcy much higher-any wonder why?
6.Health care bill wildly unpopular because it is expensive and also will add
to national debt.Not even the obvious cost saving steps put in bill to controll
the cost of health care so says the CBO.Many other flaws.If the Supreme
Court doesnt kill it then it surely must be repealed.
7.National Defence.Iran openly spitting in our face.Cutting our military
capabilities drastically in this most troubled times.With the change
in No. Korea expect new problems to develop.Closer to home fast and
furrious scandle comes to mind.
8.The 2%?Even with super majorities in all branchs of government not
one change concerning the ubber rich.Yet welfare roles have swelled.
Okay I guess its time to hear from the asswipes....

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon. The Doctors honestly want to go back to the 1980's when they were making money hand over fist by billing deep pockets insurance companies "fee for service" as in: every single thing that the doctor does, he bills for. Obama's health care program is a managed care program. They use diagnostic related groupings "DRG's" I will explain that later. That is why the doc's don't like Obama care. Less money for them [the doctors, that is]

Let's take a gallbladder for example: Back in the 80's this was how it worked. Guy comes in to the dr's office with gallbladder pain, so the family doc examines patient, diagnosis "abdominal pain, rule out cholecystits." He refers patient to a general surgeon for consult. Family doc gets a referral fee + office visit fee. Insurance pays for it.

Now the guy goes to see the general surgeon. Surgion examines patient {bill for that} orders lab draws{bills for that] orders general work up ekg, chest x ray, [bills for all that.]

Refers patient to a gi doctor for a endoscopic procedure "endoscopic retrogradecholangiopancriotography" ERCP. Surgeon gets referal fee and gi doc bills insurance for the ERCP.

Surgeon schedules patient for a laparoscopic cholecystectomy with intraoperative cholangiogram at the hospital of his choosing. The surgeon, anesthesiologist and hospital bill the insurance for every single thing they do and use for the patients treatment. That is "fee for service."

Now fast forward to 2012. The cost of health care has sky rocketed. Insurance companies are now doing what is called "diagnostice related groupings" DRG's. What a DRG means is: For a gallbladder [cholecystitis] the insurance will pay the flat rate 20 thousand dollars for everything. Hospital, Dr fee, all supplies, anesthesia, 20 thousand. that's all they are getting. If the surgeon can keep the cost under 20 thousand, then he makes a profit. If the cost goes over 20 thousand "which it could, very easily" then someone is not getting paid. They eat the cost. So if the doctor has to operate more than once because of complication he is going to have to work very cheaply. No more fee for service. What the DRG does is it gives the doctor and hospital an incentive to do the gallbladder as cheaply as possible. If they go over budget, they are not getting paid. That has good and bad aspects to it. It all comes down to money. Money, it is said, is the root of all evil.

That is why Doctors do not like managed care. Doctors do not get rich on managed care. Sorry, the days of fat money are gone. The state, governement, are broke. Spent all the money on wars and tax cuts for rich people. it would be cool to go back in time to the 1980's, but sorry. Is not possible. Many doctors are going broke, they are scratching for work just like the rest of us. I see it first hand.:D

Sorry i can't explain it better than this. This is another complex problem that people write whole books about. Hard to do it justice in 20 minutes 4 paragraphs.

[ichi the killer]

5.Energy policy centers around Solyndra type companies and the sorryass Chevy Volt.Gas under his presidentcy much higher-any wonder why?
6.Health care bill wildly unpopular because it is expensive and also will add
to national debt.Not even the obvious cost saving steps put in bill to controll
the cost of health care so says the CBO.Many other flaws.If the Supreme
Court doesnt kill it then it surely must be repealed.
7.National Defence.Iran openly spitting in our face.Cutting our military
capabilities drastically in this most troubled times.With the change
in No. Korea expect new problems to develop.Closer to home fast and
furrious scandle comes to mind.
8.The 2%?Even with super majorities in all branchs of government not
one change concerning the ubber rich.Yet welfare roles have swelled.
Okay I guess its time to hear from the asswipes....

hey, maybe we should invade Iran? Oh yeah, I forgot. that takes money and we are broke. Sorry.:)

[truthmon]

So Ichi wouldnt it make sense to get a health care fix that we can afford and actually improves things?If we cant fix everything right now then an
improvement we can afford would actually atleast reduce the amount of uninsured.
Iran is a big problem for the world and in particular for the U S and its interests.The one thing that stands out more than anything else about
Regan, and other leaders of his type, is that strength commands respect.
With crazies they are in- bolded by preceivied signs of weakness.I
would gladly cut the size of govt by 10% for the safety of me ,my family
and friends.

[truthmon]

Ichi before you start calling me names there were recent studies
done stating there is 35% waste,fraud and duplication in govt agencys.
The latest one is sitting in BOs office(per report published by WSJ).Even
2 scholars like you and I would be able to figgure out how to cut 10% of
that!Or how about a pay cut for polititions?Arent they the ones causing
the problems or not fixing them?Wasnt that what they were elected to do?

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon, you got me confused with someone else. I NEVER called you names. I just state my views and try to argue the points you bring up. As I said "This is not personal. Just a difference of opinion."

[truthmon]

I agree. I am sorry my wording appeared that it implied I said that-because obviously you didnt.The only one way out of line on this
thread was The Leech who proves that behavior belongs to the
ignorant.

[Lector]

you have the angry-white-male syndrome, noteethman. The facts have been plenty, though only your wit lacking.
This is a forum on a prostitute board, hello! speak your mind, but do it with style or STFU.

[truthmon]

No Leech this is a political forum.Just because you like it shoved up
your ass doesnt make this a prositute board.

[Lector]

then you should know the true meaning of my name, it's french for lick, as in "lick my ass!"

[truthmon]

Leech your in denial.Own up-your just a little foo-foo boy,so ive been told.
Why do you foo-foo boys even go on a thread like this one?
You have nothing to contribute in a debate-and your kind
shouldnt mingle any way with the normal-dontcha think!

[Lector]

for those with a brain still reading this deteriorating thread, here is the most detailed exercise outlining all that was accomplished under BO's first term.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/01/15/andrew-sullivan-how-obama-s-long-game-will-outsmart-his-critics.html

[truthmon]

Interesting-lets examine what you offered up here and with a little google
research you can verify.
Newsweek is desperate.From 2007-2009 they lost 52% of readership.
This led to a merger with The Beast. Result: last year Newsweek posted a loss of 20 billion and combined with The Beast its 30 billion.They will try
anything to stay in business awhile longer.
So they publish loon bloggers such as Andrew Sullivan on the cover.Yep
this is the quack that blogged Trig was not Palins child amongst other nonsense.Very easy to see its all wacky spin.For instance he compares
Bushs net results to BOs gross results.Its almost insulting he would
try to do this and Newsweek would publish it.
So an equaiiy desperate MSNBC(lowest rated cable network)trys to
justify this nut.
Even BO knows he cant run on his record.Dont you get it yet?

[ichi the killer]

Wait a minute. Granted, we are all whore mongers on this site. We can agree on that point. Right? The question that comes up, it is being raised by Newt Gingrich ex-wife. Is a whore monger ethical enough to be president? A whore monger who prefesses to exemplify "Ozzie and Harriet" type family values. His ex-wife Marianne has come out with "kiss and tell" acusations that Newt Gingrich wanted and pressed for an "open marriage" with his ex-wife and his then girlfriend Calista. This was when she first discovered that Newt was having an affair with Calista. He later divorced Maranne and married Calista. Can you say "hypocrite?" That word comes to mind.

Now, me personally, I don't care about that. Men are men. Most of them, I think, like to play around. The problem i have is the hypocracy of this clown Newt Gingrich. He is a sleaze. Did not the Republicans crucify Bill Clinton a couple presidents ago for cheating on Hillary? Well, what's good for the gander is good for the goose. Now it is time for those "family value" chickens to come home to roost for the Republicans. I predict if Newt gets the Republican nomination this ex-wife stuff is going to be front and center. Newt will be unelectable. You have to admit, Barrack Obama is a post card family man.

We are mongers, we may want to have open relationships, "I can see why Newt wanted a girlfriend, his ex wife is an old bag, shit, If i shave my face and put on some make up I am prettier than her."

As i was saying.... we are mongers....we, however are not running for president on a "family values good Christian ticket." Newt the hypcrite will never be elected by the bread and butter "hillbilly" Right wing Republican voters. No way. Won't happen. Dirty laundry.

[truthmon]

Everybody should agree with Ichi when it comes to family values concerning Newt/Clinton/and BO.If one decides they need to vote this issue then BO/Romney/and Santorum are the only valid choices.
But I look at the bigger picture.Take Sullivans view of not playing
into Iranian hands while they are shooting people in the streets during
the Green Revolution.Iranians were gathering across our nation
begging BO to atleast voice approval for their conquest for freedom.
This was against a repressor that denounced any thing free and
in front of the UN threatened big and little Saten(US and Isreal).
Yet BO voiced support for the Arab Spring in Egypt and other countrys.
So what is BOs real agenda?

[ichi the killer]

I really don't care if the Iranians kill each other, sorry. That is not my business. I am responsible only for the things I do. If someone kills someone, I did not do it. It is not my fault and i don't feel guilt about it. I see it all the time. We don't have the authority or the money to be the "cowboy in the white hat" who rides in to everyones rescue in the world. We have enough problems right here in the USA.

Invading a country to steal/secure their oil I can kind of understand. Trying to stop another country from killing their own people? Not our business. Sorry. Besides, about 100 years ago did not the good old USA commit genocide on the Native Americans? We are the good guys? Right?

Back to the moral intergrity , or lack of moral integrity of Newt Gingrich...Gingrich actually led the impeachment procedings of Bill Clinton while he was having this affair with Callista [I read she did anal for Newt] All the while the pseudo christian Newt Gingrich publicly linked the Republican party to wholesome family values and the Democrats to some alltogether more sinister. What a fucking hypocrite. I think Newt will be foisted on his own "family values" petard. Republicans vote for 2 things: The rich ones vote to keep their wealth. The poor ones {brainwashed} vote for family values. Newt fails the family values standard by any scale.

Republicans are going to lose 2012. Haha! 4 more years of Barrack Obama. Then get ready for president H Clinton. For 2012 here is what the GOP has so far: They have Mitt Romney the corporate raider, rich ass undertaxed rapist of the working class, and they have the morally bankrupt fake Christian Newt Gingrich. Both easy fodder for Obamas slime machine [hopefully the the Dems have been studying the Republican's slimeball Fox news tactics from previous elections} Fair is fair. Those 2 guys are losers. Republicans won't win 2012 with those 2 turkeys. No way. Hell no.

[truthmon]

Ichi I have never come across someone that expresses such hate for just
one political party and one TV network.Considering that almost all of them-
both partys -are bought and paid for with their interests in mind and yours
in meaningless words ,this is fascinating.Its almost like you are expressing
they did something personal against you, but I am sure this is not the case.
You mentioned Hilary.Well if she was running against the current field I
would surely vote for her. But that is not the case.
BO by his agenda both domestic and international has put all of us in
a bind that is getting more critical each day.Enough people realise this
and the numbers suggest he has very little chance if any to get
re-elected.Furthermore that is the way it should be!
Its funny because we both want the same things but you limit
yourself to only one choice and in this case it would be selfdestructive.
Its like your saying its okay to be "owned'.Well not me pal.

[trooth]

The problem with faux news is that they pass themselves off as serious journalists, when they are clearly a Rep spin machine. They lower the standards of journalistic ethics and integrity to the gutter. That is what tweaks most moderates. True, faux news is a thousand times better than right wing talk radio - which consists of radical loons - but they ought to be more professional in their approach to journalism.

As far as Newt is concerned, it is fascinating that he is surging toward victory in SC, but I maintain that the Rep Establishment will ultimately never give him the nomination. Watch for a brokered convention (if the race goes that far) with Newt getting out-brokered in the end.

Personally, I wish he would be the nominee because the election would be infinitely more entertaining in that event. And God knows, this country needs some entertainment to take our minds off all of our problems.

And before you jump on this comment, be mindful that most of our economic problems stem from the Rep rule from 2000 through 2006. That was the darkest period in modern American history since Nixon and Carter. We continue to slowly climb out of that mess, thanks to better stewardship of our economy.

[truthmon]

Trooth did you get dumped by some chic during 2000-2006 clouding
your recall of that time period?When Bush took office country was in mild recession because of dot-com bust.Following year 9/11.For these 6
years the economy was termed amazingly resilent-and healthy by
any measuring stick.Not till the dems took the house in 2007 did
the economy begin to crack.Iraq was immorral but got bi-
partisan support.But it was not worse than the Vietnam era.
I understand Fox news is the highest rated cable news network.
It rose to this stature by reporting on the housing market where
main-stream news did not report on this developing problem.
You hear more and more that the past 3 years will reserve
a spot for BO as one of the worse presidents.Time will tell
about this.Personally I think Bush was bad but BO has been a disaster.

[ichi the killer]

The reason Fox News is popular is because they pander to the lowest common denominator of the American public. I mean people with an average IQ of about 80. I personally don't watch television, I only see that shit at work in the same way as one would smell a fart if someone in the same room as you let one go while you were in the same room. I see Fox because the idiots at my job "some of them" watch it on the TV in the lounge. There is not too many choices for me as for places to take a break from work so I go to the lounge. Now days I let it be known that I hate Fox and would like to not have to listen to that shit on my break. "Whoosh! Next on Fox News, pedophiles living in your own neighborhood because the liberals let them out of prison early" Whoosh! "Stay tuned."

Side story: One of the Republican nurses at my job.

I got into healthcare because i thought I would meet more intelligent people in that line of work. I did something altogether different for 15 years before I became a nurse. I also thought there would be lot's of beautiful nurses. Boy was I dissappointed on both counts.
1. Most nurses are old fat women, like 200+ pounds. Not all of them, but most of them.
2. Many nurses are dirt stupid. Not all of them, but many. I was very surprised how dumb some of them are. I thought the school would weed the idiots out. Wrong!

Which leads to my little side story about this one Republican nurse where I work. I used to try to argue politics with her when i first met her just to show how smart I am. I gave up. She is so stupid. One day she explained herself to me, why she is Republican. She is Republican because? Well? She's not sure why. Her family is Republican and her husband is Republican, she does not like taxes, and she does not like iraqis and Iranians. She does not believe people should be on welfare and they should get a job and not be on unemployment. The Muslums don't believe in God and their country is not Democratic so she is Republican and we will invade them and kill them before they kill us. More or less that is how she explained her view point. How could I argue with that? You can't really.

This nurse is so dumb. She has made some big mistakes on the job. These are just some of the ones that I know of. She counted wrong on a surgery one time. Whoops. Left a sponge inside the patient. Patient came back later to surgery with a retained sponge in the abdomen. Another surgery to remove it. That patient got paid, you can bet on that.

Another time her patients IV got pulled out during positioning for the surgery. Whoops! The patient had a long acting paralytic to relax the muscle during surgery. The patients IV meds to control sleep and pain wore off and the rest were dripping on the bed from the pulled out IV. The paralytic still was working. Patient could not move. That is callled "an awake surgical awareness event" where the patient feels, hears and remembers every bit of a surgery but cannot move because of the paralytic med given at the start of the surgery. Whoops! Better write that patient a check as well. If I was that nurse they would not have to fire me. I would kill myself if I did some shit like that.

Sometimes she asks me questions about medical/surgical/pharmacology that make it very clear to me that she really has no idea what she is doing. You know why? Because she does not read and never did read anything. She never wanted to know. That is also why she is a "poor Republican." Ignorance.

[trooth]

.....Fox news is the highest rated cable news network.
It rose to this stature by reporting on the housing market where
main-stream news did not report on this developing problem....

TM, this is some funny shit! :D

faux news is the highest rated network because they exploit women as sex objects and Papa Murdoch has an infinite supply of dollars to spend selling sex and fake news to the masses.


And the Rep control of the federal gov't was such a resounding success that they got swept from power in 2008, losing the House, the Senate and the Presidency. The catastrophic financial meltdown of 2008 was baked in the cake during the disastrous period from 2001 to 2006. Are you seriously gonna blame the housing collapse and the global financial meltdown on Nancy Pelosi? Gimme a break.

O'Bama has already created hundreds of thousands (if not over a million)more jobs than Bush did in 3 years (as opposed to 8). What don't you get?

[truthmon]

Ichi thats a funny story. I am glad you are a Dem based on that.
Now Trooth who(actually whom)advidcated that it is every Americans
right to own a house.Then relaxed regulations to allow that to
happen.Hint it wasnt anybody from the Bush administration.
Actually the administration questioned Fannie & Freddie Mac procedures.
Barney Frank went public to say everything was cool.
All to funny what you say about Fox --you also deserve to be
a Dem.
Jobs what a joke.Spent a trillion to create shovel ready jobs.Created
a handful of temporary jobs.Took down the much touted website
as it was an embarrassment.The great accomplishment was to
shrink the job market.Net jobs is the only measuring gauge-in case you
havnt heard.
I feel you guys just have a desire not to stay informed making
it less painfull then to be on board with this nonsence
of BOs administration.
Im sure both of you wont have a clue what going to happen in November.
Why is BO the worst rated President ever after 3 years(and that includes
Carter amongst others)?
Then when the economy and country start healing I am sure youll get
over this.

[ichi the killer]

truthmon, the better things look for Gingrich, the better it looks for Obama. You guys must want to lose 2012. It looks like Newt very well may get the Repub nomination. He is a "soft target."

1st marriage: Got cancer so he dumped that wife and got another wife.
2nd marriage: Lady got old and ugly so he got a girlfriend and pushed for an open marriage. This from the guy who headed the "Bill Clinton Monica Lewinsky witch burning trial/impeachment procedings" Hypocrite.
3rd marriage still hanging with the latina who does anal, but she is losing her shelf life as well. Maybe it is time to trade her in Newt?

And don't forget Newt was a lobbiest for those dirtydogs Freddy mac/Fanny mae. A big reason why our economy is still fucked up.

Soft target. Obama is going to eat that silly old fucker for lunch 2012:).

[trooth]

....Jobs what a joke.Spent a trillion to create shovel ready jobs.Created
a handful of temporary jobs.Took down the much touted website
as it was an embarrassment.The great accomplishment was to
shrink the job market.Net jobs is the only measuring gauge-in case you
havnt heard.....

TM, first I appreciate that you are elevating the conversation with a more respectful tone. Your 'asswipe' references were not endearing you to anyone; even your compatriots have abandoned you as the lone defender of the elephant party in here. After 130 plus comments in this thread you are continually outnumbered 3 to 1. Doesn't bode well for your party in the Fall.

Second, None of the relaxed underwriting guidelines from the Feds or the Fed 'Agencies' was the cause of the rampant fraud which metastacized throughout the banking and mortgage industries from 2002 through 2006. It is pointless to blame the gov't. for crimes (yes Crimes) commited by the likes of Mozillo at Countrywide and his cohorts.

The real legislative fiasco was the Rep legislation years earlier which completely deregulated the financial and banking industries which directly led to the financial blowup. AAA rated bundled securities which were known to be worthless by the investment banking executives, etc... Credit default swaps which insured all of this worthless paper (to the tune of trillions of dollars) with No (that is, Zero) reserves set aside in the event the policies were actually 'called' to cover real losses....
Only a Mad party and a madman like Phil Graham could conceive of such ridiculous legislation that layed the foundation for such insane risk and folly.

Third, you apparently have no clue about how the economy works, or how the stimulus bill was implemented. Let me educate you. The economy can be divided into 3 sectors: Corporate, Consumer and Gov't. When they say we are a 15 trillion dollar economy, that means these three sectors combined spend 15 trillion bucks a year on goods and services inside the country. When the Great Recession hit, Consumer spending - which has been around 70% of the economy in recent years - fell off a cliff, and Business spending was flat to downward trending, so the only way to prevent a Depression (define it how you like) was for the Gov't sector to compensate to keep the economy from crashing.

What the stimulus did, predominantly, was transfer a huge pile of money from the fed'l gov't to the States so the States (and Municipalities) could avoid laying off millions of public sector employees because by law they have to balance their budgets, and the tax revenues at the State level had plummeted. If the stimulus had not passed, probably 3 million more jobs would have been lost in 2009 - at the point of maximum pain, the depth of the recession. Any failure to convert some of the stimulus into 'infrastructure' spending is almost entirely a failure of the State governments - because they are responsible for the majority of the infrastructure which needs to be repaired and built. We do not need another Hoover Dam, but we do need many new bridges and roads etc.

Another chunk of the stimulus was used to pay extended UI benefits as well as Medicaid etc. due to the massive hardship and unemployment in the country. This was done for humanitarian reasons. Believe it or not, even most 'mainstream' Reps would agree to this kind of spending in a devastating recession; But, of course, not the Tea Party Reps, or the likes of Mr. Newt.

Besides, I doubt that a full trillion was actually spent, since the Fed was also keeping Monetary Policy extremely accomodative, and the economy began gaining traction, and there was too much uproar about the growing national debt. So the bottom line is that the stimulus was both necessary and successful given the economic reality of 2009.

Finally, if you read the job numbers correctly, you will see that since 2009, the private sector has been adding jobs (at an average of about 200K/month) while the Gov't sector has actually been shrinking (at the State and Municipal levels) for the past 2 years. So O'Bama's policies are working in the Private Sector - which is all that matters, and State and Municipal gov'ts have finally begun to shrink (something all Reps would be fond of).

And, to boot, the economy is growing again - and has been growing since mid-2009, meaning that we are once again a 15 trillion dollar economy and we survived the Great (Bush/Cheney) recession of 2008-2009.

[trooth]

....Most nurses are old fat women, like 200+ pounds. Not all of them, but most of them....

Ichi, there are actually many Hot nurses in the OC hospitals I've been to. Too bad you don't work down this way rather than Bakersfield or wherever it is you are.

[truthmon]

Trooth yes I do have a distain for anyone that buys into "just the spin
of one political party"and doesnt look at the whole picture.Feeling ganged
up by 3 far left extreemists is not even a challenge when in their ranks is The Leech.Show 1 good contribution by him!
The stimilus and omibus bill passed equaled 1.3trillion .It had both direct
spending and earmarks to states requiring them to pony up $ in most
cases.If they decided against proceeding in some cases than it would
be silly to blame the states for the Feds blunder.
Jobs are still being lost so without looking at the net result is a fools
paradise.If you show 200k new jobs a month but in the same month
300k people drop out of the labor force you still have a major problem.
That is what you have now-a continuing shrinking job market.
Some form of bundling securities exsisted forever.The folly of giving
subprime AAA ratings allowed the abuses.Name one
thing BO did to prevent this folly to re-occur.So doesnt the blame
rest with all when you examine all the facts.All Barney had to do was
to come clean about F & F and the crisis would have been adverted.
Now this thing you mention about an affiliate of Fox.Do you know
who Rachell Maddow is?That kinda says it all.

[trooth]

I've never been called an extremist before. I'll take it as a compliment.

I guess when 50+% of the nation vote for the Dem candidate for Prez in November, we'll be able to conclude that half the population of the country are extremists.

Don't get me wrong. I am making the argument in support of BO because ideologically I believe the Dems have a better platform than the Reps at the federal level today. It does not mean I agree with all of his policies or that I think he is always on the right side of history. I do not. The oil pipeline issue is an example where I think he made a huge blunder. And I am pissed about that. I also strongly disagree with some of his foreign policy (Afghanistan, Israel...), but the Reps are hardly a better alternative in foreign policy issues. Santorum would probably double our military spending (that would really help the debt issue), and Paul would dismantle our military and isolate us from the world (that would be equally disastrous). Nobody knows what Romney would do because it is impossible to know where Romney really stands on Any issue.

My bottom line point in this thread is that the Reps are clearly the party for the rich and the super-rich, while the Dems are clearly the party for the middle class. In these times, I think the middle class deserves a government that will enact policies which will support a strengthening middle class in this country. The Reps will do the opposite. History is never kind to societies which become extremely polarized and suppress their masses. It's all about balance and perspective. We need a strong, vibrant, healthy middle class. That does not mean Socialism. That means free market Capitalism with a level (not a slanted) playing field for all classes in society, with a reasonable safety net for the population. The Reps would prefer to take us back 100 years. They are ideologically messed up.

[ichi the killer]

The reason Fox News is popular is because they pander to the lowest common denominator of the American public. I mean people with an average IQ of about 80. I personally don't watch television, I only see that shit at work in the same way as one would smell a fart if someone in the same room as you let one go while you were in the same room. I see Fox because the idiots at my job "some of them" watch it on the TV in the lounge. There is not too many choices for me as for places to take a break from work so I go to the lounge. Now days I let it be known that I hate Fox and would like to not have to listen to that shit on my break. "Whoosh! Next on Fox News, pedophiles living in your own neighborhood because the liberals let them out of prison early" Whoosh! "Stay tuned."

Side story: One of the Republican nurses at my job.

I got into healthcare because i thought I would meet more intelligent people in that line of work. I did something altogether different for 15 years before I became a nurse. I also thought there would be lot's of beautiful nurses. Boy was I dissappointed on both counts.
1. Most nurses are old fat women, like 200+ pounds. Not all of them, but most of them.
2. Many nurses are dirt stupid. Not all of them, but many. I was very surprised how dumb some of them are. I thought the school would weed the idiots out. Wrong!

Which leads to my little side story about this one Republican nurse where I work. I used to try to argue politics with her when i first met her just to show how smart I am. I gave up. She is so stupid. One day she explained herself to me, why she is Republican. She is Republican because? Well? She's not sure why. Her family is Republican and her husband is Republican, she does not like taxes, and she does not like iraqis and Iranians. She does not believe people should be on welfare and they should get a job and not be on unemployment. The Muslums don't believe in God and their country is not Democratic so she is Republican and we will invade them and kill them before they kill us. More or less that is how she explained her view point. How could I argue with that? You can't really.

This nurse is so dumb. She has made some big mistakes on the job. These are just some of the ones that I know of. She counted wrong on a surgery one time. Whoops. Left a sponge inside the patient. Patient came back later to surgery with a retained sponge in the abdomen. Another surgery to remove it. That patient got paid, you can bet on that.

Another time her patients IV got pulled out during positioning for the surgery. Whoops! The patient had a long acting paralytic to relax the muscle during surgery. The patients IV meds to control sleep and pain wore off and the rest were dripping on the bed from the pulled out IV. The paralytic still was working. Patient could not move. That is callled "an awake surgical awareness event" where the patient feels, hears and remembers every bit of a surgery but cannot move because of the paralytic med given at the start of the surgery. Whoops! Better write that patient a check as well. If I was that nurse they would not have to fire me. I would kill myself if I did some shit like that.

Sometimes she asks me questions about medical/surgical/pharmacology that make it very clear to me that she really has no idea what she is doing. You know why? Because she does not read and never did read anything. She never wanted to know. That is also why she is a "poor Republican." Ignorance.

One day she was running around the department frantically looking for a med. The doctor ordered her to get 40 Meq Kcl Potasium. She asked me where can she find a vial of potassium? A prudent nurse knows that you cannot push Kcl bolus all at once, it goes dilluted in a bag of saline at 10 Meq an hour. Why? Because potassium bolus is what they use in lethal injection "coup de gra." It stops the heart beating. Instantly. That is why they don't have potassium in a push vial in surgery. They know there are some incompetant Republican nurses working there. The hospital must know that these nurses don't know anything except they don't like taxes or racial minorities. I swear these are true stories. I don't make this shit up. Think about that next time you go to a hospital.

[ichi the killer]

Trooth, what do you do for work? If you don't mind me asking. You know alot about economics and politics. More than the average Joe for sure. Me, I have read stuff, forgot stuff, reread the stuff and forgot it again. You are like a professor on this stuff. I am a little too lazy to go deep into theory. I mean I could copy it off the internet, but I am lazy.

I admit, alot of my stuff is motivated by pure viceral hatred of the right wing. Newt Gingrich looks kind of like my dick when I am jacking off. His head is kind of purple and his mouth is in a smirk. Like my dick when I am getting ready to nut. I like my dick though. Newt Gingrich I hate.:D

[Lector]

well well well! while I was savoring the Newt's slashing of the Moron (a beautiful sight!)
i hear the notrueman is at it again!
now you revealed yourself as a Faux news follower with your propaganda commentary, and maybe also a Limbad ditohead. Trooth has more patience than me, I gave you a link for salvation, he spelled it all brilliantly, but you must have drunk too much kool-aid already. The 1% is laughing in their mansions watching you defend them, like a slave his masters.
We gave you facts, you recite Mr Ailes's nonsense.
But don't be sad, you too will have benefited by the time Obama finishes his second term (you're the 99%, remember?).
Now, for the sake of the lost readers of this dreadful thread, please show some IQ and have some wit!!
"Better a witty fool than a foolish wit!"
WS the bard

[ichi the killer]

lechez, who is a good apartment K-girl who looks like Tia Ling? Do you know of any? Pm me sir.

[trooth]

http://los-angeles-escorts.cityvibe.com/escorts/listing.php?site_id=LA&listing=384944

Samantha. ;)


Thanks for the compliment Ichi. let's just say I'm a small businessman who spends too much time on the internet, and who hates getting BS'd by dumb Rep politicians and talk radio hosts.

But I gotta say, I sure hope Gringrich is the Rep nominee. I would pay for good seats to watch that battle. It would be like Frazier and Ali. Ali is the incumbent. The country deserves a good show like that.

If I were the master strategist for the elephant party right now, I would be thinking that Romney can't beat O'Bama but Newt possibly could. Can Newt convince all of his enemies to bury the past?

[ichi the killer]

I don't know. Trooth, Look up "Frazier 52 blocks," Fraizier was an og of that style fighting. You kind of disresepect Frazier comparing him to Newt. Joe Frazier. He was a damn good fighter. I think gingrich is a soft opponant. Easy to find weakness on him. Everyone knows his story. Obama will beat him easily I think. It is true though. Gingrich is flamboyant. thanks for the link. Is she Korean? You have been with her?

[truthmon]

Anyone else take notice that Leech again brings up the nut blogger
put on the cover of a dying desperate mag?
Now Trooth - Ichi if for one minute you can get off what you
precive is the platform of the 2 partys and examine the reality.
Every poll out shows BO losing to a generic rep if the election
were held today.So the strategy was to spend a billion in attack
adds to try to make that the focus of the election.What wasnt
factored was negative adds to be such a big part of the process
already.They only work for weeks,maybe a month,then they
have an opposite effect.That explains the result in SC Saturday.
The NY times ran a recent editorial stating Obama should not
debate and he wasnt compelled to do so.It was obvious to me
they were suggesting he not back himself in a corner where he
may have to try and defend his policys.
So if negative adds arent the answer and avoid his record is the
strategy how in the world can he beat anybody come November?

[trooth]

Ichi you're right about the comparison with Frazier. But Gringrich and OB would be a classic battle in its own right. The Grinch has much better fighting skills than Romony. He would have a much better chance than McCain at knocking out OB. But he definitely needs to lose weight and get into better shape for the match.

Sam is definitely Korean. I haven't seen her but I've heard good things. She works in MDR area, not Ktown. There are plenty more on CV though.

Btw, how do you know his current wife does anal? That is not a very Republican thing to do.

[bmanhaus]

The problem is, the effects of the subprime/CDS problem was such a shock to the economy, it will take a decade to recover, no matter what party is in charge - I think Obama was being honest with his assessment. There are ways to make the problem better, and there are ways to make it worse. If we take the path of strict austerity, as the UK is doing, there is a real danger of nipping the recovery in the bud. I believe the Keynesian path we're taking has made the economy from getting much worse. We have to remember, in the fall of 2008, the economy came to a standstill, and even the Bush administration pushed for a huge stimulus to get the economy going again.

[truthmon]

Vega you point out things I give alot 0f thought to.But I look at Greece,Italy,Spain and
several other Euro countrys and see the US steamrolling toward that.What is the prognosis for those countrys-no way to avoid monster taxes with
major cutbacks in services.While this change is taking hold people protest
violently in the streets.George Soros(who I have a dislike for)just predicted
the US is headed toward violent protests.With any debt ridden country
it is impossible to grow the economy at any meaningful rate-again look
at Europe.For this reason I think a different course must be taken
in the US now-time is truly running out.

[Lector]

hey nut head, that was a William Shakespeare quote! not Newsweek.
oh well, the education is in crisis, can't blame you for being ignorant.

Talking about ignoring you, let's get back to the girls and boxing!
Ichi, haven't been with Sam yet but only heard great things from mongering buddies. My fave now is Yesica, but your style would be more like Dia, or real dirty with Pepsi and Co. All Kgirls, but only Pepsi might be connected to the LA K crowd.

Trooth, what about a Gingrich/Mike Tyson rapprochement? I mean, the dud fought dirty, even bit EH's ear off! Got sent to bench for a few years and had his own come back acting like a pussy.

[trooth]

"Corporate profitability is an all-time high. “Not only have pretax profits soared to match their highest levels in history, but plunging effective corporate tax rates have sent after-tax corporate profits soaring to even greater heights compared with historical norms... With after-tax profits running at 10% of the nation’s $15-trillion GDP, net additions to business cash coffers are running at least 1-1/2 trillion on an annual basis, even after dividend payouts to stockholders. At the moment, that is effectively doubling cash holdings on an annualized basis. Liquidity, in other words is enormous.” "

Recent quote by Norman Fosback, a very prominent economist. This is the true business environment that the O'Bama administration crafted. The right wingers just spin things to fool the masses.


Lechez, I wouldn't say Gringrich is as crazy as wacko Mike. I actually find the Grinch fascinating. If I didn't worry about the Supreme Court, I would have no problem voting for him. Not that I am decided yet. He still belongs to the wrong party. But he is fascinating.

[trooth]

Did you guys see Romony doing his laundry on youtube?
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

One guy has 100 million in the bank, the other guy has 300 million, and they are beating the crap out of each other trying to make the other look elitist, greedy, unethical, sinister. What a script.

My money is on the Grinch now. The establishment is going to lose.

[ichi the killer]

The grinch will get the Repub nomination, all the odds are in Obama's favor for 2012 though. Obama by a landslide [that is unless you been drinking Truthmon's koolaide] Everyone hates Gingrich, even his latina wife [who does anal] I read the reason she lets Gingrich do her in the ass "other than the fact that he gives her lot's of money" is his penis erect is only 2 and 1/2 inches long and 3/4 inches around, do it's not that bad for her. You can find out lot's of stuff on the internet!:D

[trooth]

Romoney transferred 100 million into his children's trust fund tax free.
Pretty good deal. I hope all of you petty mongers are taking advantage of these tax loopholes just like the Rom.

You think the 3rd wife will dump Gringrich if he loses the election?

[ichi the killer]

Nah, he still has money. :)

[Lector]

maybe if he loses the erection?

[trooth]

Well since Newt announced his new idea to colonize the moon, he has been dropping in the polls. I assume he would send lots of weapon systems up there so the American colony could defend against any alien space invaders they may encounter. After all, we're running out of places to attack down here on planet earth; why not pursue our military policies in outer space. I think this would be consistent with elephant party philosophy.

Unfortunately Romoney is outspending Newt by 3 to 1 in Florida TV ads, and this is probably why Newt is dropping. It's tough to win a campaign when your opponent has unlimited funds.

And the party 'establishment' is predictably trying to destroy Newt by scaring the Tee party from handing him the nomination, using the argument that he would be 'unelectable'. What they don't realize is that Romoney will never beat O'Bama. Admittedly, choosing Newt would be like throwing a hail mary pass for a touchdown in the general election, but it would still be a better bet than nominating Romoney. I really believe if the fat bastard would lose some weight and tone up a bit, he would be better poised to win the nomination.

[ichi the killer]

Yeah, colonize the moon. What a pipe dream. the "space race" was really just an arms race to get the most deadly kind of weapons orbitting the earth and to develop new technology to kill other humans and take their natural resources. With what money are we going to do this 'space race?" I guess Newt forgot we are broke.

I think either one of those guys are losers, not electable meaning romney or gingrich. No way could either of those guys beat Obama. No fucking way.

[trooth]

Conservatism is on the wane in this country. As time rolls on, the US will become increasingly liberal, while the conservatives go crazy.

This is the real reason the supreme court made it legal for corporations to spend limitless amounts of money on federal elections - to level the playing field for the Reps. If the corporations cannot corrupt politicians from both sides, they (the corporations) lose power in Washington. Corporate spending levels the playing field for the Reps, especially since they are perceived as the more 'business friendly' party.

Tom Delay, Karl Rove and the current party leaders have tried to tilt the process to favor the Reps for years, using every trick and tactic they could think of, including re-jigging the electoral map. It worked in the past, but they are fighting a losing battle against time. Remember, for the past 20 years, the only time the Reps have won the white house, they barely squeeked out a victory. One of those times they needed the SC to basically decide the election. When the Dems win, it tends to be rather decisive (O'Bama trounced McCain).

[trooth]

Romoney likes to boast about his poor immigrant father who was born in Mexico. Living in southern cal, we all know lots of mexican immigrants. How many of them name their sons 'Willard'?

The Romoney clan fled to Mexico because this country made it illegal to have 2 dozen wives. That is why they set up a mission in mexico. They fled from the best country in the world because they were unabashed polygamists. Romoney and his ancestors are all whiter than white. They ain't no Mexicans.

The more I listen to Romoney, the more I realize that he is the most slippery character of all the contenders. He has no credibility. I really would like to see the Grinch win.

[ichi the killer]

Yeah Trooth. I can see your point. Newt is what he is and he does not pretend. Romney is 1% elite mother fucker and slick/tricky. Newt is an obvious freak and everyone knows it. I still think both of those guys are weak candidates. Even the Republicans admit that they wish they had someone better to offer. They just want obama out no matter who is on their ticket.

[Lector]

agree with both of you. The Rep establishment (1%) wanted moron Romney so bad, they even cheated Santorum in their own primary election in Iowa... They knew he lost, they changed the reports like in Florida and Ohio, the second non-election of Bushwacko.
Moron Romney is a stepford wife to the Reps, no charisma, and a sugar daddy to his sect. Don't think they're not telling him around...

[ichi the killer]

It looks like Newt is not going to win the Repub nomination after all. Too bad. That would have been entertaining. I guess the stupid Repubs came to their senses and realized Newt does not have a snowballs chance in hell of beating Obama in an election. So the rich 1% elitist Romney is going to be their pick. "I don't care about poor people" super rich mormon mother fucking Mitt Romney. What is wrong with these people? " I don't care about poor people, they have a safety net?" Why would a candidate say that in front of a microphone? What was Mitt smoking? Does he really want to be President? Millions of people in America, probably some of them are Republicans,and those 2 clowns are the best they could come up with? The cream of the Republican crop? Please! God help us.

Here is a picture of Mitt Romney at home counting some money.http://www.the-penis.com/zimages/leantoright1_small.jpg (http://www.the-penis.com/zimages/leantoright1.jpg)

[Velovelo]

Romney's uncle was my high school principal, and the Mitster was sometimes at my school when he was not "behaving." The kid was not very bright, but he sure used the Mormon card to promote himself. I would not vote for him even if I must remain silent on the ballot. With respect to the current occupant of 1600 PA Ave., if you voted for him to prove you are not racist, now you must vote for anyone else to prove you are not stupid.

I like the picture of Mitt there Ichi, can't help but notice the tan lines, and it looks like Mitt walks around in his trunks with his dick and balls hanging out 'cause they sure are darker than the skin above.

I think the picture is really from the winnie wagger Anthony Weiner who quit congress.

[trooth]

With respect to the current occupant of 1600 PA Ave., if you voted for him to prove you are not racist, now you must vote for anyone else to prove you are not stupid....

Yeah, like Ron Paul. He'll set the country on the right course. Not.

People voted for BO because they were not so stupid as to vote for old man mccain and his pompom girl. It had nothing to do with race.

And they'll vote for him again because they are not so stupid to vote for a guy who is so out of touch with the real world that he never remembers how many zeroes to include when he talks about money. He is living in a fantasy world (Romney is). You wanna strengthen the oligarchy, then vote for the elitists. And don't complain with the results 8 years later.

You notice that we once again have a solid auto industry in this country, with Ford and GM doing well? Even advertising during the Superbowl. If Romney had been president for the past 3 years rather than BO, then GM would not exist today. More market share for Toyota. That would be better for this country. Let GM die, let Detroit go to hell. Who needs Michigan anyway? Let more Americans drive Toyotos. Ya!

[ichi the killer]

I bought a BMW not too long ago. Now I kind of wish I had bought a Ford Mustang. Those things are cool and a good deal. Choi says we can trade in the BMW if I want to. Maybe I will do it. I like the way the Mustang looks and it's got balls. If the "free market" Repubs had their way Ford would be gone. Is that patriotic? Or what?

[OkiOpai]

I'm not going to make the long list of everything Obama has accomplished before he was obstructed by the meanest, despicable band of Pubes ever elected to Congress. He saved the country and the world from ever harsher economical ruin. And he had to step in it even before his inauguration.

You sure live in a world removed from reality, don't you?

What's the unemployment rate now, vs. the average under Bush? How about inflation, or the price of gasoline? What about the debt? On all metrics, Obama is horrible. But if you honestly believed he saved the country, be my guest - there's a sucker born every minute.

[truthmon]

OkiOpai its funny how some people refuse to see a fire till it burns
their house down. This country cant withstand 4 more years
of BO.

[Velovelo]

I thought it would not be possible but BHO has turned in a larger turd of a presidency than Jimmy Carter. Newt and Mitt are hopeful. Hopeful no one notices that they are poor choices to run the country. Ron Paul? He is consistent. Consistently lacking of understanding we are not alone in the world, just like the Catholics. Santorum? Guy has more problems than the ignition system on a 65 Harley. You never know if he will start, and he is liable to leave you farther than you want to walk back.

I wish the liberal press would stop inspecting the anal cavity of every Republication and ignoring the problems carried by liberal candidates.

I want to see a guy like Reagan that comes in with a stiff dick and doesn't take no for an answer. A guy that lets me spend my own money, and puts government in charge of the Army and the Post Office.

[trooth]

Truthmon,
You finally found some friends to chime in and support you in this debate.
It sure took you a long time to get your reinforcements.
Of course, they have no idea what they are talking about.
I suggest they all re-read the entire thread to get the proper context of our discussion.

[truthmon]

Trooth Im sure they did and determined that your rant is based on silly
retardation.
There are too many bad players in politics both reps and dems.They
are put there and left in office by people who will only vote a party
line across the board.These narrow minded people are the problem.
Thats you,Ichi,and especially The Leech.
It is sad that you are incapable to look at the facts and see what a
fuck up BO is.

[Lector]

wow, the OC posse is on a rampage!
guys. do us a favor:
wean yourself from Fauxnews for 3 days, then you'll understand it all.:)

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon and the OC gang: Your boy Reagan was a queer.
Check it out.

http://i53.tinypic.com/9lafdt.jpg

[truthmon]

Leech - Ichi you guys get called out on your retard posts and then
you post that. I guess that is the best you can do when your guy
is Obama.Proves idiots back idiots I guess.
Why would anybody back BO.All responces guaranteed to get
chuckles.

[trooth]

Leech - Ichi you guys get called out on your retard posts and then
you post that. I guess that is the best you can do when your guy
is Obama.Proves idiots back idiots I guess.
Why would anybody back BO.All responces guaranteed to get
chuckles.

TeeMan,
BO is the smartest president we had since clinton, and he was the smartest since kennedy. The Rep party has not produced a smart president since tricky dick, and look where that got us.
Reagan was no intellectual. A good politician, yes. A good communicator, yes. A good sense of humor, yes. But smart like clinton and O'Bama, not a chance.
And the Rep party keeps producing candidates who are either too dumb or too right-wing to be electable.
If you think BO is a lousy prez, I got news for you: He's a hundred times better than W and his Grandmaster Cheney. And he's a 100 times better than Romoney the elitist would be.
Find a decent candidate and then we could have a legitimate argument.

[Velovelo]

Find a decent candidate and then we could have a legitimate argument.

You are right 100% with that, however, saying BHO is intelligent begs the question why he won't release his college records? He has released or written about the laudable portions of his education, but has chosen to hide the complete record.

Why when he was in the Senate and had a chance to build a voting record he simply voted "present?"

I wish a person with the ability work for most of us would throw his hat in the ring.

I do wish the best of health for BHO because Biden is a heartbeat away, and he makes even Palin look qualified to run the executive branch.

[trooth]

Velo,
You just exposed yourself as a birther. O'Bama was a law professor at the University of Chicago. Do you think they would have hired him if he had been a poor or mediocre student? Last I checked, Chicago is not that bad a university.
And who cares anyway? I much rather see the full 12 years of Romoneys tax filings than whether BO got any C's or D's in college.
Wouldn't you?

[truthmon]

Your a funny guy Trooth.He taught constitutional law.Now the Fed govt
is being sued by all of the 57 states that BO claimed to have
visited over matters of constitutionality.This country has never been
this divided or screwed up.Wake up man.

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon, anyone can sue anyone. All it takes is: Money, time and the wherewithall to pursue the lawsuit. It does not mean the lawsuit has any merit. Then the defendant has to fork over the money and time to defend himself or forfeit/lose the lawsuit. In the case of lawsuits against Obama care that is the Right wing nuts wasting federal dollars. The reason the Right wing is upset is the mandate for universal health insurance, even poor people would have to have health insurance. Clearly this is unfair. Only the wealthy like Mit Romney should have health insurance. Everyone else should just die in the street. They have a safety net anyway, right?

[truthmon]

Itchi your correct except The Supreme Court will not take frivilous
matters.Thats where that shit HC thing will be decided as well
as a matter concerning border controll.When was the last time
you sued someone and the Supreme Court decided to hear the
matter?Why do you tune out whats been happening?Take a
look at what is happening with the economy and also with our
standing in world affairs.Its sad what BO did for the past 3 years.
Worst ever President!Its bad all rep candidates are flawed.But
fact of matter is they are all qualified to do a much better job than
that sorryass elitest BO.

[ichi the killer]

Yes, it is shameful the things Obama has done since he has been in office. Like the cowardly way Obama killed Bin Laden. He should of just let Bin laden slide along for 8 years like Bush Jr did. I mean Bin laden was just minding his own business in Pakistan and then Obama issued an order and those special ops bastards killed him. WTF! They even shot Bin laden's favorite bitch. That was just plain wrong!;)

[truthmon]

Ichi again you miss the big picture.Obama didnt shoot a bitch or anyone,
the seals did.The intel used to locate Bin Laden has been dismantalled as
Obama said he didnt approve of the method.Bottom line is we will not
be able to reproduce such a feat if needed.But to his credit he did give
the approval for the mission.I surmize he felt he coundnt pass up this
political gimme.Honestly we are far less safe under Obamas stuartship and
its only going to get worse if his brand of non leadership remains in office.
We all should be shitting our pants with his handling of the Iran crisis.

[trooth]

Ichi again you miss the big picture.Obama didnt shoot a bitch or anyone,
the seals did.The intel used to locate Bin Laden has been dismantalled as
Obama said he didnt approve of the method.Bottom line is we will not
be able to reproduce such a feat if needed.But to his credit he did give
the approval for the mission.I surmize he felt he coundnt pass up this
political gimme.Honestly we are far less safe under Obamas stuartship and
its only going to get worse if his brand of non leadership remains in office.
We all should be shitting our pants with his handling of the Iran crisis.

Yeah, we were so safe under W.
911, anthrax in the mail, flashing colored lights all over the news used by the gov't to scare you morons into voting for a 2nd term. Even Tom Ridge admitted it was a political farce.
And by the way, W really showed us all how to handle the Iranians. Yeah, he sure did.

[truthmon]

Most of the planning and training for 9/11 occured under the watchful
eye of Bill C.Yes Ridge did resign over the pressure of raising the terror
alert before the 2004 elections.He has principals.If the people surrounding
BO had the same integrity they would surely have all resigned.
So Trooth like BO once again you dodged the question as to any good
reason to vote for BO in Nov.

[trooth]

TeeMan,
BO has done nothing unethical so there is no need for his staff, according to your argument, to resign.

And the reason to vote for BO again is that he is a much better choice than any of the Rep candidates.

Like I've said several times, if you want to replace O'Bama, then find a decent candidate who deserves to be prez.

The Rep party has become a dysfunctional mess.
You have 4 factions vying for power and control:

The Tee Party wing, following Gringrich. These reps want to ramp up the military and prosecute more wars, while shredding our social programs at home and handing most of the political power over to the giant corporations and wall street.

The Purist Libertarian wing following Paul. They want to withdraw from the rest of the world, dismantle our military, completely dismantle all social programs, eliminate all government regulation, carve the gov't down to a miniscule size so it can no longer function, replace the current republic with a state of anarchy. Whatever will happen, will happen. It sort of worked thousands of years ago when we lived in caves. Of course those societies all became extinct.

The Religious Fanatical Right faction following Santorum. This group wants to replace George Washington with Jesus in our history books, amend our constitution so as to only guarantee rights to heterosexuals, appoint Supreme Court justices who will make all decisions based upon biblical law, and ultimately make it illegal to practice contraception. I think they also would like to wage a holy war against much of the Muslim world, though it is unclear where they are going to get the funds to do this.

The Centrist faction following Romoney. The original Rep party. This group is the most normal faction, but they have chosen a leader who should not, and probably cannot, win the presidency. Nobody knows where Romoney stands on any issue. The most likely outcome of a Romoney victory in November would be an Administration which will govern almost identically to the way the BO Administration is governing. We'll re-label O'Bamacare as Romneycare and move on. The problem is that Romoney is so out of touch with reality since he is so insanely wealthy, that he can never understand the needs of the middle class. He will always decide in favor of the elites and the Oligarchy, and he will be much worse than O'Bama for the majority of this country's citizens.

As I've mentioned before, although YOU do not like O'Bama, the stock market sure does. And I think the stock market is a lot smarter than you are.

Also, for you to suggest that capturing Bin Laden was not a great achievement of O'Bama, and that it did not take real guts to give the order, is ridiculous. If the mission had been botched, O'Bama would have been lambasted and ridiculed. And why did your heros W and Grand Wizard Cheney fail to capture him?

Wake up and smell the coffee guys. You are prejudiced against BO because he is Black and Left of Center, and because you are influenced by the Right Wing Talk Machine on the public airwaves.

[truthmon]

You sure have alot to say about things and if it made any sence it
would be impressive Trooth.The stock market is forward looking &
BO is so weak that it will do well if it is forcasting a change for the better.
The market will go down as the revised forcast by the CBO on the economy plays out.If it looks like an Obama victory at that time the market will tank.
The middle class is taking a beating with BOs policys.Standard of
Living way down.The shift under BO was more elite,less middle class, and
more poverty.The facts are clear and easy to check.So its plain wrong if
this is your argument for him.
The crap you bring out about the reps is what one would have to
do if they are backing someone as incompetent as BO.It will be
a totally different story when it is one on one and Obama will
have to match his record against anyone else.What dooms BO
is his inability to change.

[trooth]

I'm not buyin' it TeeMan. You're biased against BO because you're a Rep who does not like left of center Dems. Do you honestly think Romoney can beat O'Bama, unless there is a recession this year?
I don't.
Most of O'Bamas problems are because of the dysfunctional Congress. They have taken an oath from a stoopid lobbyist, and they are willing to harm the economy in order to try and make O'Bama lose the election.
TM, if you are betting on BO losing the election, then you are betting on a recession in the US this year. I'll take that bet.
And keep your eye on Iran. Real people don't need no colored lights.

[truthmon]

How can you write that with a straight face?It was convienent
for him when the dems lost the house a year ago.Now BO had one more thing to blame and devert attention from his failed policys.
What do you mean by keep your eye on Iran?Iran said today that
they will announce something on their nuke program in a few days.
Our last hope before a military action would be a freeze on the
Iranian central bank.Two months ago Obama said he wanted to put atleast a 6 month hold on this sanction sov he can study it further.Then
his administration sold Isreal out by stating they probably would
attack Iran in April or May.
I dont hate Obama-thats just more of your silly BS.I just see him
for the jerkoff decisions he makes one after the other.

[trooth]

Dude, the whole world knows a military attack on Iran is inevitable. What you hear from the politicians is designed to confuse the enemy. It is all chatter which needs to be decoded.
The attack will come while O'Bama is president. Probably well before the election.
Nixon almost allowed Israel to be destroyed. The Reps have a spotty record toward Israel. But I agree with you that O'Bama has been dead wrong, as was Bush, about his policy regarding Iran. Although, to his credit, there have been multiple assassinations in Iran the past year. There is a covert war being waged.
The bombs will come soon. God will make sure of it.

[truthmon]

No Dude the whole world believes Obama is backing down
from Iran.That is why Israel feels they were thrown under
the bus.Even on his apology tours he acted very cowardly
in front of countrys that arent exactly in love with the US.
Cant understand for a second how you can believe that.
Yep all that is in his head right now is get re-elected
and his place in a new world order.

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon: The guy in command is responsible for what happens on his shift.

This is true for me when I am the charge nurse in the operating room on weekends. If 1/2 my staff arrives late for the start of the shift and we have an emergency with not enough staff on hand to handle it, does the late staff get held accountable? No. The management holds me accountable. They say "You should have managed the staff you had on hand to be able to accommodate the emergency."

Like wise, I am in charge and my staff does a horrible emergency trauma. We pull it off, the patient does well. Did I do the surgery? No, I get the credit though because I was in charge and my team pulled it off. They give me credit for managing my staff in a way so they could effectively do their job, which is surgery and hopefully saving people's lives.

So: Barack Obama deserves credit for getting Bin Laden. He gave the order. It happened on his shift. Even Faux News reluctantly said the same, under their breath, right before they got back on their "We hate Obama" programming. Just the same, Bush/the Repubs were in charge for 911, remember? Who's fault was 911? Bill Clinton, right? Thats what Fox says.

What exactly bad thing has happened since Obama has been president Truthmon? The economy seems to be improving, the news says it and I see it at my work. My place is actually hiring people again. They just hired a new night nurse in my department and we are doing more surgeries. It was dead slow for a while, now it has picked up again.

The big problem with Iran is we took Iraq/Saddam Hussien out of the equation. Now there is no balance. Saddam had those Iranians in check. Who/which party took out Iraq? I think that was W's/ the repub's misadventure, the Iraq war. When you upset the balance their should be some forethought as to what will be the consequences of this action. Did Bush's people give any consideration as to what Iran's response would be once we took out Saddam? It does not seem like it. You know, if Saddam was still in power and Iraq still had an army he would not tolerate Iran getting nukes. No way. Saddam would but Iran down in the harshest possible way.

This is all moot anyway. You guys don't have a viable candidate for 2012. Barack Obama is a sure thing for reelection in 2012 the way things stand now. Sorry. Have a drink on me Truthmon, there is always 2016. Maybe the Repubs could start looking for a viable candidate for 2016 now. You know, a normal kind of person who does not have a lot of skeletons in his/her closet, who is not a Christian nut, does not have a shady business history, one who has paid adequate taxes. I bet if you guys tried you could find one. Maybe? I mean if you guys really looked high and low you could maybe find a Republican who is not a crook or a nut job. You guys have 5 years to do it. Plan for the future. You guys have time. Better get crackin'. Maybe if you guys had a reality show on Fox, like "Dancing With The Stars."" I can see it now. The show could be called "Who want's to be the POTUS?" Right inbetween "Judge Judy" and "Jerry Springer." "Next on Fox! Swoooosh!"

[ichi the killer]

No Dude the whole world believes Obama is backing down
from Iran.That is why Israel feels they were thrown under
the bus.Even on his apology tours he acted very cowardly
in front of countrys that arent exactly in love with the US.
Cant understand for a second how you can believe that.
Yep all that is in his head right now is get re-elected
and his place in a new world order.


“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
― Sun Tzu (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1771.Sun_Tzu), The Art of War (http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/3200649) Sometimes it is best not to look like a macho gay cowboy ala Reagan when dealing with an enemy.

[truthmon]

Ichi very good point about Iraq.But that is now history and we
have a critical situation with Iran and a President that just doesnt
handle such things well.
On every measurable scale this country is failing.The CBO just put out revised forecast for 2012.It mirrors Greece.Growth 1.1% ,unemployment
will go back up to around 10%.Debt will be over 16 trillion.Mentioned
inflation starting to escalate(Truly the poor mans tax).
Corrupt administration-who else would tolorate Eric Holder and his
scandelous behavior etc.
So Im debating this with the clueless who cant or wont look at
the present facts and numbers..To make matters even worse BO
submitted a new budget with increased stimilus spending.
Who doubles down on failure.BO of course!
I dont expect you guys to vote against BO- your hopeless.
So just want you to hear why he should and will lose.

[trooth]

TM, so who is your choice among the Rep candidates?
You must have a preference - it is one of four. Who gets your endorsement? Take a stand so we can know where you are coming from.

[ichi the killer]

Yeah Truthmon, make a stand. Which right wing nut job do you endorse?
The rich tax cheat corporate raider guy?
The angry womanizer alduturer/hypocrite guy?
The one who wants to dismantle the federal government altogether guy?

Hey, maybe the woman who could see Russia from her backyard and does not have time to read anything will run. She still has time. She is just as qualified/unqualified to be president as the other ones that are running to be the GOP nominee.
Be sport! Tell us which one you like? We promise we will be nice.

[truthmon]

A very fair question.I am not thrilled with any of them.Newt is smartest
& Mitt may win nomination.As I stated I cant vote in primary.On
qualifications they are all better than BO.So I endorse who ever runs
against BO and the country might not be fixed-but we will be on a better
path.Who knows we may have someone better(no diff to me the party)
and further upgrade in 4 years.But the country definately cant avoid
disaster if BO gets 4 more.Right now several bills-HC and Dodd Frank
need to go if we are going to begin to heal.

[trooth]

Right now several bills-HC and Dodd Frank
need to go if we are going to begin to heal.

Yeah, I kind of yearn for the good old days when the health insurance companies could deny coverage to all individual applicants for any one of a thousand pre-existing conditions. Go see the movie 'Sicko'. Every American citizen should see that movie.

And I sure do miss the days when Wall Street banks could leverage their books by 40 to 1, and AIG could gamble 200 Billion dollars with all the risk being passed on to us taxpayers. While we're at it, why not reverse all the other regulations so corporate America could pollute and destroy our environment without worry, and the drug companies could bring experimental drugs to market and use humans for their research studies. It would save a lot of time and money. They will be more profitable. More people will die and life expectancy will be shortened.

Has anybody seen the air quality around Hong Kong or Southern China lately? Do some googling and see what the country will look like if we deregulate every sector of the economy.

But TM, you still didn't tell us who you endorse among the Rep candidates. Could it be Santorum - the guy who wants to establish a Christian Theocracy in place of our current secular government?

[trooth]

Could it be Santorum - the guy who wants to establish a Christian Theocracy in place of our current secular government?

I may have him confused with Perry. Perry was the guy who held a three day open-air prayer ceremony to pray for rain in Texas this past year, right? I always get mixed up with the religious right candidates.

I think W used to talk to Jesus every day and get his marching orders from the guy upstairs when things got complicated. You want another Dude like that in the WH?

[truthmon]

Nobody in their right mind takes Micheal Moore serious, and that includes alot on the extreme left.
Obviously you are not very versed concerning the content of Obamacare
or Dodd Frank bill.I guess that because all you site is the administrations
short sound bites.
That is my point right along-your too ready to turn over your mind
to someone else-in this case the Dem political party.And your in denial
that your not part of the problem.Your too ready to then blame who
they tell you to when things inevitably get worse.
I was very clear how I stood on the upcoming election.

[trooth]

I was very clear how I stood on the upcoming election.

I disagree. You have not indicated who you endorse. At least I have the guts to strongly endorse a contender for the WH in November.

And Sicko is a brilliant movie. How can you comment on it if you haven't seen it?

If you think about it, everything you stated about me, equally applies to you. Brother, you sound like a parrot of Rush Limbaugh.

[truthmon]

How stupid Trooth.Your acting like a baby because in Feb someone
hasnt endorsed strongly a candidate for a Nov election.Except for
Ron Paul I can assure you I will cast a vote against Obama.In the
case of Ron Paul I probably would vote 3rd party candidate.
In any senerio I am confident I voted for the best option.
Your defination of a brilliant movie demonstrates how low your
bar is set.

[Lector]

i guess FauxNews has succeeded in a lobotomy effect on its viewers (our 3 right-wing compadres included) on what are the origins of Obama's Health Care Plan that was signed into LAW by the US Congress. May I remind you of the Heritage Foundation, a right wing think tank, and your own Moron Romney's Health care law which he passed as a MA governor??
the same!
The Grinch said it best: Romneycare is Obamacare!
Dems learned from the best, Clinton. To get a second term, do the politics of the center. Obama did just that, and forced the Pubes to run to the wild, as far right as they could see.
Sore losers.

[trooth]

TM, you definitely listen to way too much talk radio. You probably think exactly like Hannity. That makes both of you right-wing Reps.

The last time we replaced a really smart guy with a dumb guy, we had a Lost Decade. You're just lost in the weeds. You can't see how bad a choice Romoney would be. And Santorum, for that matter. You need to run a solid candidate who has enough brains to do the job. And don't even think of running anybody over 350 lbs or whose name is Bush.

Look at Congress' approval rating. Single digits. Don't you think half the tee party freshmen are gonna get tossed out in November? Of course they will. The problem, as I've said before, is the party. Until the party becomes a serious mainstream party, they are gonna be useless at governing. I don't want another lost decade.

You want the WH, Mr. Rep? Then change the law to make it illegal to make a pledge (and Especially to a flipping Lobbyist) if you want to be eligible to serve in Congress. The Rep party had all those years under Clinton and Bush (12 years?) to make it illegal to discriminate against 'pre-existing' conditions. If they remained in power for 50 years, they never would have done it. How dare the President regulate the free market. It is unconstitutional. Let's see if Judge Roberts will save us from this government takeover of our healthcare.

I've seen the Rep party in the House and Senate for a long time, and they did not do much good. They did screw up the budget when Bush came along. What the right wing talk radio hosts don't tell you is that the Rep agenda is to continue to shift the balance of wealth in the country to the wealthiest few percent. And even more dramatically to the wealthiest 0.1 percent of the pop.

Listen to me TM. You don't strike me as a rich monger. I'm sure you do ok, but I doubt you net 250 before tax. So think really hard before you vote for someone who is not 1/4 as smart as the guy already doing the job. If you want my advice, I'd say Gringrich is your best choice. The Reps were too stoopid to consider the only guy that would really have had a decent chance to knock out O'Bama. Huntsman. Between 2 Mormon candidates, the party chose the dumb one. Just like they chose the 1/4 term Governor of Alaska for veep. The party always makes the wrong decision.

[truthmon]

Trooth again if you werent so bias you would readily recognize that
politics have a group of excellent Dems as well as Reps.But the list
of real shit Dems and Rep polititions would be much greater.As long
as people have your mentality it will never get better.To clean
up politics we need more people to vote on reality, both Dems and
Reps,and not a straight party line.Gutsy because you would
have to do your own reseach and excerise your brain.That wouldnt
be easy to do for alot of people, am I not right Trooth?
Obama is personable and has a fair amount of intelligence.The
problem is he is an extreme idiolog who seems prone to make
far too many terrible decisions for a President.Some of our
less intelligent Presidents turned in some stellar terms in
office making some pretty wise decisions.It may
have been because their teams they assembled for support
info and advise were extremely good.That surely isnt the
case with BOs team ,that seemed to be put in place based
on his idiolog goals.Thats a sure fire way to failure.
Now most people felt right along the HC bill is a major disaster.
Many people-I included-think it was design to fail delibertly-as
a prelude to a single payer system.So before it crushs us
financially or drive too many good doctors away from practise
it needs to be repealed.There are a couple things in it we both can agree are
very needed and good. Hopefully they would be included as the starting point
of a new HC plan.
I have a problem when it comes to moronistic comments
to respond to.So I just wont even bother with The Leechs
post.

[trooth]

Now most people felt right along the HC bill is a major disaster.
Many people-I included-think it was design to fail delibertly-as
a prelude to a single payer system.

TM, this remark is ridiculous. Only a right wing wacko could suggest something so paranoid. Did you get this notion from Hannity, or Glenn Beck?

And if you would wipe the fog off your glasses for a moment, you may begin to realize that O'Bama is Not an extreme 'idiolog'.

On the contrary, Ron Paul is an extreme 'idiolog'. Rick Santorum is an extreme 'idiolog'. O'Bama is far closer to the center than either of those two nuts. He Has moved closer to the center, and he Has compromised repeatedly with the Reps, although they Never reciprocate. It is the Reps intransigence which is preventing the Fed'l gov't from making progress in solving the debt crisis. This is a fact. And it is because they have sold their souls, and our country, to a moron Lobbyist named Grover. It is so outrageous that it is disgraceful.

You accuse me of being excessively biased in favor of the Dems. Idealogically I do not have much of a bias. But based on performance, the Dems have been far better at governing, at the fed'l level, than the Reps for the past two decades. Sure I agree there are good people in government on both sides of the aisle. But if you look at the two parties through a purely objective lens, it is impossible not to conclude that the Rep party is a friggin mess - being pulled in 3 distinct directions by ever more polarizing and 'far from center' characters, except for Romoney who is a centrist but trying to pretend he is a right winger to win votes - and the Dem party appears to be so much more in touch with reality. I guarantee you, barring a recession this year in the US, O'Bama wins handily in November.

If you want to have a real debate, you have to stop listening to the right wing propaganda which is poisoning the airwaves.

[truthmon]

Trooth sounds like your desparate with those remarks.Two points
to illistrate:
1-look at the budget Obama submitted this week.If it was accepted(dont
worry even most dems wont vote for it)this country would be officially
a Bananna Rebublic.
2-As previous stated the CBO did revisions to the 2012 forecast-based
solely on BOs agenda(you can thank congress for atleast stopping
somethings).The outlook is glum-thats put mildly.This is all your
sweetheart Obama and one of his puppet masters Reid.
So the remaining question is who will Trooth be told to blame
for this failed Obama shit this time?
lets start a pool.Ill take the do nothing congress or even foul
weather in Kansas.The sure bet is Obama will never take responsibility
for any of his failures.

[ichi the killer]

the big problem that is on american's mind is The Economy. The Republican base however takes "values" as the big issue facing America now. Values such as "freedom, as in freedom to not have health insurance, abortion, birth control, gun control, Religion, gay marriage" That kind of stuff. I personally think those things are fringe issues that are not the priority now. The repub candidates must pander to the repub hillbilly guns and bibles base to win the nomination. The Repub party has been highjacked to the extreme right by these idiots "the base." Too bad. I really don't care about gay marriage or if a woman takes birth control. Actually I wish they all were on birth control. There are far too many humans on this planet as it is. Obama wins in 2012 sure thing.

[OkiOpai]

This is the political corner my brother.:)

Some of us discuss our political views using logic and reason. Foaming refers to unhinged loony rants, an area that seems to be your specialty.

[OkiOpai]

[QUOTE=lechez;57104]i guess FauxNews has succeeded in a lobotomy effect on its viewers (our 3 right-wing compadres included) (blah, blah, blah)

So you can't really discuss the issues without hysterical rants about Fox News, which I don't even watch (I don't own a TV). Figures...

[ichi the killer]

OkiOpai. I read 3 newspapers a day. My opinions and info I get largely from things I read. If a agree I take it. If I dissagree I argue against it. I don't watch TV either. I see it at work in passing because the thing is on in the lounge. I don't see you bringing anything contructive to this forum.

I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you go outside and kill yourself? I would like that, and the world I think would be better off for it. We could write on your epitaph "OkiOpai. RIP. He took one for the team." Do it now, please.

[trooth]

TM, can't you round up some more sophisticated right wingers to join us in here?

[truthmon]

Trooth he has much more class than The Leech dont you agree?
That dude is an idiot.

[trooth]

No. Lechez is a good guy. You just got to get to know him.
He IS a bit hard core about his politics, that's all.

But your buddies are just not sophisticated enough to debate the likes of Ichi, etc. That's why they resort to insults. In doing so, they make fools of themselves. This thread is for mature mongers only. Go find some right wing buddies who can keep up with us.

[Lector]

TM, dude, i'm just fucking you, ooops, sorry, fucking with you...
just trying to get a lttle humor in this dreadfully serious thread.
wise up.

[ichi the killer]

lechez, truth and even truthmon are cool. I have to admit i am not that fond of OkiOpai though. I might like him better if OkiOpai killed himself though. He could call Fox news and do it in public. The Fox news team would film it and the Republican base would jerk off while they watched OkiOpai light himself on fire with a lighter and a can of gasoline so he could burn to death on primetime television. That is the kind of hard hitting photo journalism Fox News is known for. "Whooosh! Next on Fox News. Human charcoal! Whoooosh!" That would make points with me.:)

[truthmon]

Question for Trooth and Ichi.I dont rely on cable news and actually
only tuned into MSNBC and Fox a few times each.I remember seeing
Keith O -then heard he was fired.That guy was a jerk and cant imagine
how he was hired in first place.Also saw Greta Von (last name ?).She
seemed very smart but show was boring.
So my question guys is why do you have such a deep hatred of Fox
news? The concept to me of developing hatred towards something
you are not being forced to watch seems kinda immature.

[ichi the killer]

Truthmon, I hate Fox, not just the news but the whole channel with everything on it because: I am subjected to it pretty regular at work. There are die hard people who watch that stuff at my work in the lounge. when i take my lunch breaks I can't leave the hospital. The cafeteria is way on the other side of the hospital. So I am fairly captive in the lounge or else I could just not take a break. so I am subjected to that crap.

My first memory of Fox, was when i first came out o Los Angeles in 2003. "Shock and Awe" was on TV especially on Fox. I remember the Right wing people were practically masturbating while they watched the high tech filming of many thousands of Iraqis being murdered for the simple reason that they happened to be in Bagdhad when W decided to bomb the shit out of Iraq for no real good reason. I knew right away that was wrong.

I also noticed whenever any of the "talking heads" O Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, those ilk talked with someone who had a differing opinion than the right wing view they would effectively shout them down and not let them finish a sentence. I also noticed how stupid the shows were: Like "24" and those kind of shit and the hosiptal shows like "House" I just hate that kind of stuff.

I hate Fox the way a prisoner of war who was forced to listen to "guns and roses Welcome to the Jungle" 24 hours 7 days a week for 5 years would hate that band. And not to mention the inane cartoons like "The Simsons" and that kind of toilet humor crap. I just hate that stuff.

I also noticed how ugly most of the people on Fox are. Old hatchet faced women aka Greta von Sustern and stuffed fat shirt old white men mostly. Also I noticed how steriotyped their depiction of all races except white people are. All the Black people except for the black "oreo cookie" business men types are either; hip hop people, drug dealers, gang members or pimps. The white pople who watch Fox suck that shit up. That in a simplified view is why I hate Fox.

Fox to me is a microcosm of what the Republican base is. They kind of shape the Republicans and mirror the Republicans at the same time. It beg the question: "What came first; The chicken of the egg?" I mean are the Fox audience simpleton biggot hillbillies so that is why they watch and like that stuff or is it because the Fox programming makes them that way?

[truthmon]

Pretty good reasons Ichi, I can definately understand your point of view.
Just something I wanted to mention.Read short time ago why Fox news
was highest rated cable news station and MSNBC was lowest rated.
It wasnt enough to make me want to watch Fox but it sure made me
think only an idiot would waste time with MSNBC based on what was
mentioned in what I read.

[trooth]

MSNBC has one of the best political/analysis shows on TV - Meet The Press hosted by David Gregory.
CNN also has one of the best political/analysis shows on TV - Global Public Square hosted by Fareed Zakaria.

Watch these two shows occasionally and your political intelligence will increase dramatically.

If you watch Hannity or Glenn Beck instead, your mind will be polluted with right-wing conspiracy nonsense and pure unadulterated hatred for Democrats, Liberals, Centrists and Moderates.

Your choice.

Don't get me wrong, I think Faux News is produced extremely well, and their shows are more professionally packaged than the programming on competitive cable news stations. I just think they give too much air time to nuts like Hannity. If I remember correctly, I think they fired Beck for being even too right wing and wacko for Fox Standards (:eek:), but you can still enjoy his brand of lunacy on his own Cable network.

[truthmon]

I may check out meet the press if I can find out the time slot.
The knock on MSNBC is their policy to have all guests to sign
a pledge not to express a contradicting view on issues.
Sounds like Russia or China and keeps the audience minimal.

[trooth]

The knock on MSNBC is their policy to have all guests to sign
a pledge not to express a contradicting view on issues.
Sounds like Russia or China and keeps the audience minimal.

TM, that is pure fiction. It is beyond ridiculous. Where did you glean that piece of 'information'?

[trooth]

I may check out meet the press if I can find out the time slot.


Both shows are aired Sunday mornings.

I highly recommend you watch Fareed Zakaria's show. He is a brilliant guy, and he gets much more intelligent guests than you will typically see on Fox. There is no spin or manipulation of the story to suit a given political bias. You will see a real intellectual perspective of the issues. All his shows are available to view at his website.

[Lector]

I second that 100%. Fareed Zakaria was Newsweek's best reporter. Then he went to Times, now TV. His heritage also gives him a more global perspective to the socio/econo/political issues.
There is no one on Fox that can be compared. The loud angry white males anchors are not journalists, they are entertainers.
Roger Ailes, the mastermind of Faux news, is a brilliant strategist, a la Karl Rowe, his goal is extreme right wing propaganda, not news. He uses the same KR tricks that worked for BushLite: say the exact opposite of the truth, say it loud, over and over, it will stick.
It worked on Kerry. That idiot didn't realized he was getting pulled into a street fight, he wanted to be a gentleman, and lost: a decorated war veteran soiled by a coward draft dodger. And if you believe that shit from the Swift Vets against him, KR did it to another highly decorated vet the same way, silver star Max Cleland, who lost 3 limbs defending his country. no shame.
What's wrong with Fox? the mind numbing repeated mantras "failed president" "failed policies" "liberal media" "socialist medicine" that everyone who watches repeat. Instead of the facts, true debates and neutral analysis that a channel that dare to call itself with the name News has the civic duty to deliver.

[trooth]

...Fareed Zakaria was Newsweek's best reporter. Then he went to Times, now TV. His heritage also gives him a more global perspective to the socio/econo/political issues.
There is no one on Fox that can be compared. The loud angry white males anchors are not journalists, they are entertainers...... say the exact opposite of the truth, say it loud, over and over, it will stick....

Lechez, good description of Hannity right there. Potent stuff.
TeeMan, take a lesson here from a guy (Lechez) who sees clearly through the bullshit. The biggest hypocrites in the country are right wing loudmouths.

Fox is distorting the political spectrum, trying to shift the 'center' further right. Since most of the population is easily brainwashed, they are pretty successful.

I think the Fox editorial philosophy is steered by Dick Cheney. The old Master and the other members of the dark trio, Karlsbad Rove and Ken Starr - the pervert, pull a lot of strings behind the scenes.

[ichi the killer]

As someone mentioned: The elephant in the room is the republicans are so bitter with Obama the republicans are HOPING something very bad will happen to the USA before the 2012 election. They are HOPING for an economic down turn [ecomomy seems to be improving at the moment and this helps Obama's reelection] or a nuclear war with Iran that repubs can blame on Obama's policies. The Repubs hate Obama so bad they wish ill on America. To the repub's anything/anyone is better than Obama. Even death, economic depression. The ends justifies the means to the right wingers. That is bordering on treasonous.

[ichi the killer]

ugly hatchet face Fox News Greta von Susteren.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1628368478238&id=b68b9c601e6cfe741a8d8bb305a7d13a

[trooth]

To the repub's anything/anyone is better than Obama. Even death, economic depression. The ends justifies the means to the right wingers. That is bordering on treasonous.

Treason is not something new to the GOP. Grand Wizard Cheney committed treason when he outed a covert CIA agent purely for petty political revenge.

And according to Noot (remember him?), O'Bama is the most radical, dangerous, Marxist, Kenyan, anti-colonialist poser ever to have served as President. Not to mention that he is a Muslim who supports global Jihad against Christian America, and he is a N_____ to boot. Don't be fooled, the racial angle is one of THE main issues at play.

Noot's a pretty persuasive guy. If he is right, then maybe driving the economy into recession IS a good idea, so we can all be saved from this Black Demon.

Remember when O'Bama broadcast a message to elementary schools during the first year of his presidency? Thousands of schools and millions of parents were outraged that this evil-doer would corrupt and pollute the children's minds. Kids were forcefully kept home by their parents rather than be brainwashed by such dark propaganda.

When a patient needs surgery to save them from cancer or some other disease, the surgery is pretty brutal and dangerous. Cutting someone open and carving away at their insides. But it is a good thing if the patient recovers and regains his health. This is similar to the GOP thinking re-O'Bama. Whatever it takes, the Nation (the patient) must be saved.

[ichi the killer]

Ichi, my good man, your point is on target, but the image is too strong. Us non-medical types don't have the stomach for these kinds of images. Please edit the last post and remove the 2nd picture. It is ruining a perfectly good thread. :eek::)

Sorry, that was pretty gross. :)

[truthmon]

Bombarded again by nonsence that always must shield failure from daylight.
Ask and most people will say Carter the peanut was the worst Pres.
in recent memory.Now look at what we were induring the last 3+ years:
Under Obama unemployment has stayed above 8% entire time.It was
7.4 when he took office.National debt became a topic of conversation
even amongst people who previously didnt know we were borrowing
money-scary shit.Inflation is starting to creep into our daily lifes even
though it is being artificially held back by the govt.It has to explode as
every economic principal tells you that.When he took office the average
gallon of gasoline was a $1.84.What is it now $3.85 and raising.
This is what you think is the champion of the working stiff?Yea get a life.
Save your breath if your going to blame this on Bush.BO said he had a plan and solutions-but what he had was BS!Tough and difficult times
require self honesty and sometimes not the ideal choice.But that is
todays reality.
Now I started by mentioning Carter.If this was an election between
Obama and Carter-Carter could win it.Not saying much for BO is it!

[hornyag101]

When he took office the average
gallon of gasoline was a $1.84.What is it now $3.85 and raising.

Were did you get $1.84 gas? You must mean before Bush took office right? Wasn't it during Bush's presidency that gas went over $4 a gallon? maybe you meant $2.84 but it has never been $1.84 since probably 2003/04.

[hornyag101]

As someone mentioned: The elephant in the room is the republicans are so bitter with Obama the republicans are HOPING something very bad will happen to the USA before the 2012 election. They are HOPING for an economic down turn [ecomomy seems to be improving at the moment and this helps Obama's reelection] or a nuclear war with Iran that repubs can blame on Obama's policies. The Repubs hate Obama so bad they wish ill on America. To the repub's anything/anyone is better than Obama. Even death, economic depression. The ends justifies the means to the right wingers. That is bordering on treasonous.

This is the worst part, how Anti American can they be? I have asked my Conservative friends about this and they say there just against Obama's policies and want everything he does to fail. This is the main reason I am moving away from the the Republican party. I can give a shit who is in office just as long as the Country prospers. I tell them I don't care if a former drug dealer gets elected President, I am gong to root for him/her to succeed because it is in my best interest. For them it's either succeed the way they want it done or nothing, the most stubborn bunch of people I have ever dealt with.

I have always hoped that every President who has ever been elected during my life was the best President ever. Regardless of party affiliation even though I largely voted Republican. The Republicans crucified Obama from day one and it has never stopped. I am not crazy about the guy but I want the economy to turn and for our country to prosper. If that means 4 more years for Obama then I am willing to make that trade. The last thing I would ever want is for more bad times, it will never make sense to me why anyone would want that.

[hornyag101]

Treason is not something new to the GOP. Grand Wizard Cheney committed treason when he outed a covert CIA agent purely for petty political revenge.

Your absolutely right, Cheney should have been brought up on treason charges and, if found guilty, executed for his crimes.

One thing I really respect about China is they don't fuck around. I remember there was a politician who was found to be lining his pockets with bribes so people could get government contracts. He was found out, found guilty and executed. I think the same thing should happen to the politicians here, it's already a law that treason is punishable by death, they should start enforcing it.

[Lector]

words of wisdom from a Republican I can respect!
well said, Horny!

This is the worst part, how Anti American can they be? I have asked my Conservative friends about this and they say there just against Obama's policies and want everything he does to fail. This is the main reason I am moving away from the the Republican party. ........ The Republicans crucified Obama from day one and it has never stopped. I am not crazy about the guy but I want the economy to turn and for our country to prosper. If that means 4 more years for Obama then I am willing to make that trade. The last thing I would ever want is for more bad times, it will never make sense to me why anyone would want that.

[truthmon]

Hornyag double checked it was $1.89 national ave the day Obama was
sworn in.I like you always want the country and President to do well.
I had voted for Obama.I thought against McCain he was the one who
would do the better job.He sure talked like he had a plan and things
would go in the right direction.
Now I can say without a doubt he didnt follow through and things are
worse and somewhat more scary.He no longer can offer hope-unless
your a "free-ride" person.
So anybody taking a good look at the situation and concludes Obama
cant do the job and must go is just being responsible.Trust me if he
could do at least a half ass job he would of got my vote second
time around.
He put us in jeopody with the economy and weakened our military.Is he
kidding me, its not like alot of countrys will help us.I want leadership
that makes us strong not tear us apart which seems to be the
current tactic.

[hornyag101]

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Average U.S. gasoline prices rang up at $1.84 a gallon on Tuesday, up from $1.67 a gallon a month ago, according to the AAA Daily Fuel Gauge Report. A year ago, gasoline sold for $3.01 a gallon. The highest recorded price of $4.11 a gallon was on July 17, 2008.

Your right. But what should also be noted is it hit a record high just 6 months prior and was already surging up a month prior to his Inauguration. None of these politicians care anyway, the Oil lobby is so strong we are all fucked. I used to complain about the gas prices and would hear back from my Conservative friends that it is because we can't drill, that is BS. If I owned Exxon why in the hell would I want to spend money producing new drill sites when I am enjoying record profits that this country has never seen before. I wouldn't want to spend money to increase oil supply so the prices at the pump go down, why work harder for less money? It's a fucking joke to think an industry that is making record profits would want to mess with a good thing, think about it.

I am not trying to say that Obama is doing a great job, just that personally I think whoever got elected was in for some tough times. I doubt anything would be different under McCain/Palin, remember, McCain said our economy was strong a few months prior to the crash while Obama was talking about there being a problem.

I knew there was an economic downturn a few years prior to the crash as I own a luxury goods business, we are the first to feel a recession and the last to recover. The crash was inevitable and with it being so widespread and worldwide anybody would be kidding themselves if they thought there would be a quick fix. Were just going to have to be patient as this is going to take some time.

Personally I feel it is the Republicans who have done everything they can to tear this country apart. The Democrats are too passive and they need to grow a pair and fight for what they believe in. I really think we need a third party to really shake things up, unfortunately the Tee Party and the Libertarians are probably not the answer. I really hate to only have 2 choices when it comes to the President, it's always the lesser of 2 evils but there still both EVIL, What kind of choice is that?

The Republicans can't even get a good candidate, even they don't like there options. Our political system is in shit shape, God help us.

[truthmon]

I agree with alot of your analysis of where we stand now.But thats
where we part company.Everything points to an assurity that 4 more
years of Obama is the wrong road to be on.Dont have to look further
than to Europe to see how ultimatly common folk pay the price.The
rich never do-its all a game it seems.So the choice in the election seems
at best to be a nudge in a better direction.Thats why Obama wont get
my vote.I am sure he will lose, as he should.

[ichi the killer]

A third Party would only help the Republican's by getting the moderates and swing voters. Reagan Democrats.

Gas prices are not set by the buyer, it is set by the seller. Obama has not much say in gas prices. The only thing he can do is open the national gas reserve to lower prices. Today is cold and windy:Is that Obama's fault as well?

Speaking of high gas prices: Just wait till the other shoe drops with Iran. What do you think that will do to gas prices when the Iranians shut down the Straight of Hormuz? Hint: $200 a barrel oil and six or seven dollars a gallon gasoline.

Regarding deificits being Obama's fault. I quote Dick Chenney: "Deficits don't matter, economic growth matters."
Since when did the Republican's start caring about deficits? What a bunch of bullshit.

[hornyag101]

I agree with alot of your analysis of where we stand now.But thats
where we part company.Everything points to an assurity that 4 more
years of Obama is the wrong road to be on.Dont have to look further
than to Europe to see how ultimatly common folk pay the price.The
rich never do-its all a game it seems.So the choice in the election seems
at best to be a nudge in a better direction.Thats why Obama wont get
my vote.I am sure he will lose, as he should.

The highlighted point I don't get, do you honestly think the Republicans have a candidate that would do more for the common folk than Obama?
I am well off, while not rich by McCain standards but I haven't had to pay a cent of interest for about 8 years now, not even a mortgage. I voted primarily Republican because they were in my best interest but that time has come and gone. I don't benefit from the tax breaks they implemented or policies they push because I am only middle class. They no longer cater to the middle class, only the rich but they have a large percentage of the middle class believing they are part of the club. They bark about the job creators needing more relief so they can create more jobs, too bad those new jobs are in other country's.

I keep feeling weird as if I am an Obama supporter, I am not, I just don't see anything getting better with the alternative Republican candidate. At least Obama has tried to help the middle class with Obama care, the poor get free healthcare while the rich can afford it so the middle always gets screwed. I am also pissed at Romney for implemented Romney care when he was governor and now backing away from it when Obama's name is mentioned, what a spineless jerk.

What I find that is odd is the people I know who are the biggest Obama haters are the ones who are in the worst shape financially. I have heard them even refer to the crash as being under Obama's term and that he instituted the TARP program. It is as if Bush had nothing to do with these things and there heads are in the clouds. They talk about Republican policies as if it would actually affect them, I want to shake them and let them know they are NOT rich. They talk as if there in this upper class and that Obama is out to get them but there delusional, there middle class but must be ashamed of it.

The system pretty much screwed up and the President doesn't have as much power as people think anyway. We really need to reform the House and Senate and institute term limits with general guidelines that must be adhered to. I honestly don't think there is a candidate or incumbent for President that would make much difference one way or the other, I am sure Boehner is crying over that right now;)

[hornyag101]

Today is cold and windy:Is that Obama's fault as well?

Conservatives have already argued that since Obama is a blow hard that yes, the weather today is his fault:D

[hornyag101]

Speaking of high gas prices: Just wait till the other shoe drops with Iran. What do you think that will do to gas prices when the Iranians shut down the Straight of Hormuz? Hint: $200 a barrel oil and six or seven dollars a gallon gasoline.

That's scary, I have already seen $4.08 Super unleaded this morning.

I wouldn't be surprised to see record gas prices going into the next election like I wasn't surprised to see gas prices drop prior to the last election. I am not trying to imply anything but don't be surprised if that happens even if the Iran problem stays calm.

[hornyag101]

Regarding deificits being Obama's fault. I quote Dick Chenney: "Deficits don't matter, economic growth matters."
Since when did the Republican's start caring about deficits? What a bunch of bullshit.

It is a joke, Bush went into office with a surplus, they never talk about how quickly all the money disappeared and the deficit grew under his term.

[truthmon]

Hornyag I like that you have an opinion on all aspects of an issue,so do
I.I hate when someone gets emotional over one little part of a complex
matter, not taking into consideration the whole picture.
Firstly,financially we probably mirror each other.In my life though except for a mortgage that is now paid,I never paid a cent for interest even paying cash for cars.
I wish 3rd party was a reasonable alternative.But any way you slice it
there is no chance we could get a better outcome in the coming election.
I feel very strongly about deficits.Regardless who says they dont matter
they are full of shit.I was lucky because I have traveled constantly
for the last 25 years or so.I saw the effects of out of control
spending and deficits in many countrys.Its not pretty-horrific the
way it cripples the poor and shrinking middleclass.I had visited(for bussiness) Argentina once before then 4 more times when they were going
through their crisis.It still has me tear up.We should NEVER allow
that to happen in this country.
Gas prices were brought down in past by 2 things.First we must appear
strong as a country.Second we must give the appearance that we
are pursuing more of our own resources.Just the opposite is happening
in this country now.I am mad as hell over the Keystone pipeline.We are
doomed to $5 a gallon gas by summer.This is a Pres. who cares about who?Cutting our military now is the wrong time.
Obamacare is screwed up in lots of ways.Face it ,wont effect
the rich.Honestly its welfare that will be paid for by the few left in the
middleclass.Price of healthcare will go up at higher %s.
You know have fun voting for Obama.Me I dont find this as a reasonsonable choice.

[hornyag101]

The thing I am asking is what do you consider a reasonable choice and do you think we actually have one? I say we don't which is the number one problem IMO.

We agree on deficits and I want cuts in government, something the Republicans used to be for, now they just talk about it but never actually get anything done. Truthfully I don't think they actually try anymore as things are good for them. A recession is GREAT for rich people, they get richer. I have plenty of clients and my-self as well that make a 8 to 10% return on our money through rental property. When they closed off the credit markets it was like Christmas if you had cash. All the damage that happened during the Bush administration really only screwed the middle class and bolstered the rich, do we need more of that?

Really the problem I see is that the Dems are for the poor and the Reps are for the rich, were does that leave the rest of us? Without a thriving middle class the American dream is over.

I think what I am really arguing over is that we need a change in this country and it's not just, oh this year we will put in a Democrat then next year a Republican. They all just flat out suck and we need a real change.

I actually never said I was going to vote for Obama, I have no idea who the Republicans will even throw out there anyway. With this electoral college it's not like our votes are going to matter much her in CA anyway, you have to be in a swing state to have your votes count nowadays. Maybe I will just vote Libertarian, they maybe be nut jobs at times but at least they don't want to fuck with my life, there closer to old school Republicans than what we have today.

Either way good luck, I hope whoever wins does a good job.

[truthmon]

Horneyag we are extremly close in our thinking.
The thing I am pondering though is that I know Obama
wont change.It is possible that the Rep, who ever it
is ,feels atleast such a strong voter mandate that
at the very least he holds the line on things,and it
wont push us over the edge.I do believe in my heart
the swing states will do the right thing.Its important
for my kids they do.
As an aside I have never make more money in such
a short time than the Obama era.In finance-my
profession-
I just put large bets on the industries hes targeting to
destroy or over regulate.Shorting never was my thing
but you got to take what they give you.
With all the hardships out there I would
gladly take alot less to stop the bleeding on
the many.Not too much to hope everyone has
the same opportunities I had when I was younger-is it?

[trooth]

Cutting our military now is the wrong time.
Obamacare is screwed up in lots of ways.Face it ,wont effect
the rich.Honestly its welfare that will be paid for by the few left in the
middleclass.Price of healthcare will go up at higher %s.

If you think the cost of healthcare - the aggregate total spending on healthcare - is going to be significantly increased due to the new federal law, then you don't understand the issues.

Healthcare costs have skyrocketed in the US over the past 2 decades, as the efficiency of healthcare spending has fallen way way down the scale compared to that in most other 'advanced' countries. And it has nothing to do with 'O'Bamacare'. Life expectancy and overall health in this country had become dramatically worse prior to 2009, while it continues to improve in most other nations.

Americans have been getting ripped off, big time, for healthcare since Reagan's tenure in the WH. Repeal the new law, and I guarantee you it will make no difference in the costs versus benefits we get as a nation. 40 million people will continue to get healthcare in the emergency rooms and the costs will continue to skyrocket out of control.

It's all a game. The insurance companies control the system, and to a large degree, the costs.

And if you think we should keep spending a trillion dollars a year on 'defense', then you don't understand history. Every empire in history eventually declined and faded out of existence by making this mistake. Our military spending is too high. Our imperialist policies are too foolish, if we want to survive as the greatest nation.

[truthmon]

Some of our military use is a fools policy.Thats just plain bad politics.
Maintaining a very strong military is just good common sence.
Obamacare is set up to fail by design-again more of that shitty
politics crap.So there is a mandate and if you decide to you
dont get a HC plan you pay a fine for a couple hundred.No
pre-existing clause which aiiows you immediate access to a
policy when you want it.So you wait till you get sick, buy a policy,
then drop the policy when your well again.
So who pays for Obamacare?How much will insurance policys
really cost as this thing progress?What idiots think this is
a remedy to our HC problem?The sole purpose of this mess is
to get the country to a single payer plan.I say no thank you
to that.

[trooth]

Quotes from the new GOP front-runner, Rick Santorum:


"[The] right to privacy…doesn't exist in my opinion in the United States Constitution."

“Radical feminists have been making the pitch that justice demands that men and women be given an equal opportunity to make it to the top in the workplace.”

"One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country.... Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that's okay, contraception is okay. It's not okay. It's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."

“The state has a right to do that, I have never questioned that the state has a right to do that. It is not a constitutional right, the state has the right to pass whatever statutes they have. That is the thing I have said about the activism of the Supreme Court, they are creating right, and they should be left up to the people to decide.”
~Rick Santorum, declaring that states have the right to outlaw all forms of birth control.

Bringing race into Obama's abortion views:
"The question is — and this is what Barack Obama didn't want to answer — is that human life a person under the Constitution? And Barack Obama says no. Well if that person — human life is not a person, then — I find it almost remarkable for a black man to say, 'We're going to decide who are people and who are not people.'"

“Almost 60,000 average Americans had the courage to go out and charge those beaches on Normandy, to drop out of airplanes who knows where, and take on the battle for freedom. Average Americans, the very Americans that our government now, and this president, does not trust to make a decision on your health care plan. Those Americans risked everything so they could make that decision on their health care plan.”
~Rick Santorum, falsely claiming that WW2 veterans fought for the privatization of health care on D-Day, apparently oblivious to the fact that military health care is government run and a majority of WW2 veterans are currently using and enjoying Medicare.

“One of the criticisms I make is to what I refer to as more of a Libertarianish right. They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low, that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world. There is no such society that I am aware of, where we’ve had radical individualism and that it succeeds as a culture.”

“If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual (gay) sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery, ... You have the right to anything. Does that undermine the fabric of our society? I would argue yes, it does.”

"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that. I think we absolutely have rights because there are consequences to letting people live out whatever wants or passions they desire."



These are all verbatim and true. You just cannot make this shit up. :eek:

If this moron gets the nomination, he will lose in 48 States. 85% of women will vote against him.

I used to think the Rep party could not find a candidate more slimy than Rudolph Giuliani, more theocratic than Mike Huckaby, or just plain Dumber than Sara Pailin. Well I was wrong!

[ichi the killer]

Quotes from the new GOP front-runner, Rick Santorum:


"[The] right to privacy…doesn't exist in my opinion in the United States Constitution."

“Radical feminists have been making the pitch that justice demands that men and women be given an equal opportunity to make it to the top in the workplace.”

"One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country.... Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that's okay, contraception is okay. It's not okay. It's a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be."

“The state has a right to do that, I have never questioned that the state has a right to do that. It is not a constitutional right, the state has the right to pass whatever statutes they have. That is the thing I have said about the activism of the Supreme Court, they are creating right, and they should be left up to the people to decide.”
~Rick Santorum, declaring that states have the right to outlaw all forms of birth control.

Bringing race into Obama's abortion views:
"The question is — and this is what Barack Obama didn't want to answer — is that human life a person under the Constitution? And Barack Obama says no. Well if that person — human life is not a person, then — I find it almost remarkable for a black man to say, 'We're going to decide who are people and who are not people.'"

“Almost 60,000 average Americans had the courage to go out and charge those beaches on Normandy, to drop out of airplanes who knows where, and take on the battle for freedom. Average Americans, the very Americans that our government now, and this president, does not trust to make a decision on your health care plan. Those Americans risked everything so they could make that decision on their health care plan.”
~Rick Santorum, falsely claiming that WW2 veterans fought for the privatization of health care on D-Day, apparently oblivious to the fact that military health care is government run and a majority of WW2 veterans are currently using and enjoying Medicare.

“One of the criticisms I make is to what I refer to as more of a Libertarianish right. They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low, that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world. There is no such society that I am aware of, where we’ve had radical individualism and that it succeeds as a culture.”

“If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual (gay) sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery, ... You have the right to anything. Does that undermine the fabric of our society? I would argue yes, it does.”

"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that. I think we absolutely have rights because there are consequences to letting people live out whatever wants or passions they desire."



These are all verbatim and true. You just cannot make this shit up. :eek:

If this moron gets the nomination, he will lose in 48 States. 85% of women will vote against him.

I used to think the Rep party could not find a candidate more slimy than Rudolph Giuliani, more theocratic than Mike Huckaby, or just plain Dumber than Sara Pailin. Well I was wrong!

Ha! That was masterful Trooth. I wonder how tm will respond to that? The Republican nominees are a bunch of freaks. Hard to believe they are serious, it seems like some kind of comedy or joke. Like some kind of science fiction/comedy aka "Idiocracy."

[Lector]

Ha! That was masterful Trooth. I wonder how tm will respond to that?

wow, let me try this, Ichi
let's see... failed president.... i voted for him (you see i'm not racist).... but worst than Carter.... wait...
sorry, Karl, didn't hear that one, could you repeat quietly?
oh, yes... deficit maker....not born here.....arrogant....

[ichi the killer]

Regarding healthcare: There are many factors at play with the rising cost of health care.

1.Doctors want "fee for service" where they can bill and be paid for everything they can justify doing to/for a patient. The more they do/ the more they get paid. Doc's want to make money. Sadly for the Doctors, the days of fee for service are gone.

2. Insurance wants to pay as little as possible. Sometimes this is not that bad of a thing. I will explain later.

3. Technology is advancing by leaps and bounds: For instance, now we at our hospital have about 10 different kinds of bone grafts and bone putties for use in a fracture situation where the surgeon deems the patient needs a bone graft. 10 years ago they either harvested bone from the same patients illiac crest of used sterilized cadaver bone chips that we have on hand.

This one graft that some doctors use is made with stemcells from recombinant DNA made in the lab from microrganisms. It is called "infuse" If I cut my arm and smeared some "infuse" on the cut bone would grow there in my skin. Very fancy. High tech. {hard to believe the Republican candidates are so stupid, there really are some bright minds out there, sorry I went tangental} Also VERY EXPENSIVE. One ten cc vile of this stuff costs $10,000.00. We used some the otherday on a hispanic day laborer who fell off a ladder while fixing a roof. He was a trauma. His srugery and hospital stay must have cost a fortune. We treated him like he was a movie star. No holding back, we used all the technology and experise on hand. 2 Doctors 2 nurses 1 surgical technologist, one rep from the otho company plates and screws we were using, one x ray technologist for the floursocopy real time x-ray. That was just in surgery. I wonder who is going to pay for that stuff? Whatever.

Somewhere down the line someone has to say "enough is enough. Who is paying for all this stuff?" Did he really need a 10 cc vile of "liquid gold?" I don't know. I do know there were other cheaper options. But hey, it's not my money. Well maybe it is: The taxpayers probably have to foot the bill for that shit.

There are many factors at work in the reason healthcare is getting more expensive. Too hard to list it all in this little forum and you guys would get bored reading it anyway.

[trooth]

Hey Willard M. Romoney:

Did you read the Wall Street Journal online today?

"...GM expects 2012 sales to top 2011's $150.3 billion.....For 2011, GM's profit jumped 62 percent to $7.6 billion."

Imagine that. All because O'Bama didn't let them wither and die. Money and jobs and profits and growth all back in the American rust-belt. It sure beats scavenging from the poor and siphoning all the profits away to the Cayman Islands. Keep up your good work Willard. Take advantage of those tax loopholes, and keep reminding us how a real President would grow and preserve decent manufacturing jobs in this country (not minimum wage jobs like Rick Perry is so skilled at adding in Texas).


Remember Perry? He was the guy who wanted to take Texas out of the Union a few years back. Funny how he changed his stripes on that issue when he thought he could become President...